Episode 02: Managing Self-Doubt

Cassie Newell (00:00.118)
Welcome to episode two. I'm Angela Haas and I'm here with my cohost, Cassie Newell. And this month's theme is all about mindset. This episode, we're talking about managing self doubt. Self doubt for me, it's the monster under the bed. Cassie, when was the first time that you felt that doubt monster looming over you in your career? How does that feel when you hear that word self doubt?

What does that mean? It's interesting. I wrote this book called Writer Fuel and I call self doubt the sassy saboteur. Self doubt wants you to follow that path to kind of ruin what you think will go forward. It gets you in all these different directions on the road that you're trying to travel, but not the road you want to be on. So that can happen in so many facets. And for me, I think it happened

Most specifically when I just started and I published book one and now it was time for book two. And I had a two year pivot circle roundabout throw away kind of second story before I figured out exactly what it should be. had the whole doubt monster telling me why even write book two, just go on to the next thing.

shiny, you know, new project and all the things. And I think that was probably the biggest self doubt that I had at the time. And I actually had an editor say, finish book two, you need to finish this series. have a plan specifically how it ends. And I think that was my, my, my problem. usually know exactly how things end. Right. And this was the middle book, but you know, what was interesting Angela is

I think it's the better book out of all three of them. I think it's the better book. And it's funny that I can say that now sitting back hindsight and all that, but it's like years later, I go, it was the toughest one mentally challenging, I think it was the better one for sure. is that because you had less self doubt and you felt like you could.

Cassie Newell (02:23.512)
just truly write and get it out. You learned a lot. Why was it better in terms of the mindset? don't think it was better. think that's hindsight that it's better. think for me, I just pushed through the self doubt. I pushed through it and I found ways that I enjoyed what I was trying to do in book two. I changed the storyline to fit where I was as a writer and the things going on around me.

at the time. And I think that's how I dealt with self-doubt. I don't think it ever went away. Actually, when I published it, I was like, my gosh, I hope this works. I hope this works kind of thing. And I'll be honest. And I think everybody should hear this. It's not always typical that you sell above book one. And I didn't, I didn't. It's not a big seller. It's just really tough in series to.

to keep hooking and going unless you get a specific type of following. And I didn't, but to me, the winning of that was that it was done and I was onto book three and then it was going to be finished. And I knew exactly how book three would be. So, yeah, I don't think I ever got over it. I think I just kind of went under it and kept going. Not through, under it. Nice. Under it. Under it.

So that I was going to ask you, does it ever really go away? now where you are right now, what part of self doubt is still there? What specifically? When is it not there? Come on, let's be real, right? I have self doubt a little bit about this podcast sometimes. like, well, anybody listen to us. I'm sure our friends will. Hello friends. Will this new romance thing work?

I don't know. I hope so. I'm giving it my best level effort, right? You always put your best foot forward as they say, right? And you always try to make the best out of what you're trying to do creatively, but there's always going to be that little devil mckay on your shoulder versus your angel, you will, going, nobody's going to like this. Nobody's going to buy this. They're going to laugh at you. They're going to snicker at you, all those things. But I do think

Cassie Newell (04:48.053)
And I'm curious as to your thoughts on this, because you've got more books too. I do think as you publish more and more and more, that self doubt starts to shrink a little bit about your ability to write. Do you think that way? Yes. Of course. I mean, it does. I mean, you don't. I, for me, self doubt.

I've always been a writer. I've been writing my whole life. I've been published in little things here and there, different trade magazines. And they had, when I was at the university, had a collaborative publishing effort that we did with some of my colleagues. And so I've been writing my whole life, but it was never my career. And when I first started thinking I was going to put a book out there,

I had such stage fright because I felt like I didn't belong here. In the world of business and the world of retail and management, I belong and I know I belong. And even though you have little days of self-doubt, I know because I've had 30 years experience of trials and errors and learning, but it's different.

when as far as you can read about management in textbooks and then apply and practice and do, but writing is so personal, right? I'm literally taking something that's been in my head, writing it down and putting it out into the world for people to judge. Who? Who signs up for this? Why would you do this? What? On purpose? Why am I doing this? But it's also, I mean, management and-

The career I have in retail, which I still have, is very meaningful, but it is meaningful to put yourself out there and then someone does like it. And that keeps me going. And that's how I manage. I still have stage fright every time I put a book out there. I keep it longer than I should probably. I probably over edit the thing to death. Any sort of feedback I get, I put it in there. so I'm still, I don't know, I'm managing it.

Cassie Newell (07:04.161)
by still continuing to put myself out there and to just do and finish. But you're right. It's always there. It's always lingering because when you do get someone who isn't your ideal reader or doesn't like your book, it hurts for some reason. But I think that means that we care. We're not just cranking out books to get out there and get attention. We want these things to be good and we want people to fall in love with them.

There's also a difference between, I think, longevity to in an author career versus short time goals, because some people, for example, in other industries will write a book about that industry. They're one and done, right? This is a little different with fiction. Most people don't write just one fiction book. Right. Never try to publish another one. There's usually multiple stories that you have, whether you publish them or not.

But I feel like that when you're publishing multiple books, it does get a little easier. But again, I just don't think the self doubt ever goes away. I also feel like that's an integral part of being hungry to find the right formula or story or direction that you feel that you need to go within your life. Yeah.

Maybe. Unless you're an author that truly is publishing just for fun, just as a hobby. just like... do know some people who just, don't... I don't want to say they don't care, but their focus is not selling and making sales and building a readership. They're just writing and they're publishing. But I also know some authors, and if you're out there listening, hopefully this...

be helpful for you that write a book and stop because there's too much self-doubt, because they just didn't get traction and therefore they don't think that this is for them. I've known some authors who've become friends who were in that zone and it just hurts my heart because you work so hard on one book.

Cassie Newell (09:23.053)
Yeah. And to stop because you just feel like you aren't good enough. That's, I want to say that's not true. You're good enough. Your work has value. There are people out there. It is hard work finding them, but they're out there. Well, it's interesting that you say that because I don't know, I've been to several different types of conferences and different newsletters that have said it takes 10, 10 books.

Nobody wants to hear that. 10 books to get traction. And there are some people, it's their 10th series to get traction. So nobody wants to hear that. I love watching the actor studio on YouTube sometimes. And they'll talk about, the overnight success was like five, 10 years in the making. It's never an overnight success. Never. It's sobering for sure.

when you start out, but I think you have to decide, like you said, is it a hobby? Is it something for you that you would like to share? I have my passion project, which was a poetry book. Not saying poetry books don't sell, but it's very uncommon, you know, that they're blockbusters. I totally did that for me. I love poetry and I wanted to play and do my art in it and all this stuff, but it's not something that I was going to do.

gangbusters about either, but you have to have your passion projects, right? Right. And that is a beautiful book, by the way, your poetry book, because I have it and it's stunning. But the question is, do you do that first or later? Because I did my passion project first and- I think it's, well, what do you think? Do you think that was a mistake? Do you have self doubt about that? Well, no, but I'm excited because-

switching to romance, I think there's going to be some connectivity between the genre, between the stories because they're all strong female focused, some romance. And I think there's readers that will enjoy both, both books, both the series and the romance books. But I guess everything happens the way it's supposed to. For me, that's what I believe. I had no idea. I didn't come out

Cassie Newell (11:43.869)
knowing how to write romance. I knew how to write a fight scene and write cliffhanging scenes and all about superheroes. That's what I was in love with and that's what I knew at the time. I don't regret it, but it was harder to find people. Then once you're not finding people, because my sci-fi series doesn't fit neatly into sci-fi, it's not hard sci-fi. It's not

really for Star Trek fans, it's for superhero fans, but it's not technically a comic book. So where do you market this thing? So that made my job harder, but I've been better about understanding that yes, your job at marketing these things is harder. It doesn't mean they're not worthy and it doesn't mean they're not good. have to- Please understand that rolled off my tongue pretty easily. That's not always how I feel, but-

That's what you have to constantly, when those self doubts creep in, I constantly try to replace the negative thoughts with a good thought. And I used to do this when I taught speech classes, when I'd have students get up and they'd tell me, I can't do this. And I'd tell them not to fight that. Don't fight it. Be real with that feeling and pay attention to it. But then don't let it hang on you. Start to replace it with.

I am doing this. Even if it's not, can do this right away. It's like, I'm standing up here and I'm doing it. I'm here. I'm doing it. So that's a little, it's called technically cognitive restructuring. That was the lesson I taught in my speech class, but it works for authors. It works for me when I hear that, when I get a one-star review, which technically means you've made it, I guess. I try to just go read the reviews that people like.

that's where sometimes self-doubt gets you is we let those negative things take hold. We get all the positive aspects of it, all the positive reviews, all the positive comments. And that's what we can do to help manage it, is go back and find the positives. don't know if that... I love that. I think that's a brilliant practice really, for those of you that have self-doubt right now even. Like I'm just thinking about this. So

Cassie Newell (14:07.121)
for example, I have my romance books, that are coming out. They're all short stories. I've got some lingering self doubt as to will people be okay with short. It's, it's killing me lately. I'm thinking about it a lot because I am not super short. I'm a novella. I'm a two hour short. So there is definitely a difference in the category. And so I'm trying to.

market a certain way. And I have my whole plan for 2025 is short. And I'm like, what am I doing? So Angela, from your advice, switch it. Yeah. Okay. I know what I'm doing. You do. I mean, it's still a question mark at the end, but I know. And we're going to see how it goes. It's an interesting thing. I know this is episode two, and we talked about goal setting last episode.

I do a word of the year and it's, want to build because in my mind you have to build to get to a certain space and it's a brand new genre and it's just all the things, right? So I love that practice. That's really good. hope people do try that today when something's just negative or you're kind of in doubt to flip it. It doesn't have to be immediate.

I love that. you've got to actually, in public speaking, that's the number one fear for some people. Death is two, public speaking is number one. So what I learned too is sometimes when we have self-doubt, we try to push it away, but it's a teaching moment. So for listeners, I don't even want you to push it away and stuff it down and ignore it. You have to face it.

ask yourself why it's here and what it's trying to tell you. And if you can be with it for a second, then it's almost like in Scooby-Doo when there was a monster that everyone was scared of and then they just stop and take off the mask. And then it's not as scary because it's just a person. These self-doubts can scare us. But if we face it and shine a light on it, then

Cassie Newell (16:29.597)
it's not as scary. And then we can figure out what it's trying to tell us. And then you can start to flip that script. that's- I think that happened for me with book two. I think it was the wrong story. wasn't giving myself time to breathe what type of story needed to be. All the things. Yeah. Absolutely. Well said. What a raggy. I love Scooby-Doo by the way. I loved those reveals. Who's the monster? don't you? It's like the postman and you're like,

Is him. Yeah, it kind of goes into one of the thoughts. I was just thinking about how do you recognize when self doubt is good versus bad. Like if you take the time to sit down and say, why is this happening? Why do I feel this way? Maybe it's an internal gut thing. It's intuitive, right? There's a lot of discussion around being an intuitive writer or an editor and maybe it's, you know, intuitive. so sit down and spend some time with it.

When was self doubt really bad for you, Angela? And what did you do? Well, that has a lot to do with when I published book two or the process of publishing because I had so much self doubt about, even though I published book one and people were liking it, when I went back for the series, writing a series is harder than I thought. And especially because mine are more standalones in an interconnected universe. So it's not the same person in every book.

But I didn't trust myself and I gave a lot of my story away to different editors who were rewriting things the way they wanted. And I ended up having to rewrite the entire book because I didn't trust myself. I let that self-doubt overtake me because I said, these people are the experts. I need to listen to them. I have to take any and all feedback I get. And then it became a moment where there were too many voices in my head and I lost

complete sight of what I wanted. And so I took time. I took the good and bad of feedback, but I rewrote the entire thing the way I wanted. And it's so much better than if I would have published what I was being encouraged to just get it out and publish it. So that was a good thing. I'm so glad I did not publish the version that wasn't me because it would have been horrible.

Cassie Newell (18:52.235)
And not saying that the other feedback was making it horrible, just wasn't me. wasn't the story I wanted. It wasn't a product I would have been proud of. I took time, even though it was all self-doubt motivated, to rewrite the entire thing. And now I feel so much better about it being out there. So that's a time. So that's a time when it was good for me. But what do you think for you? When was it good for you to have a lot of self-doubt?

I think it was good for me through my coaching business. It was interesting because I did a class and a certification to become a coach. However, the classes and certification I went through really wasn't the type of coach I wanted to be. So there was a ton of doubt when I was opening that business, but this is what they trained me for. And this is the way I supposedly have to do it.

And then, I don't know, I am such a sassy ass because when people tell me, you're surprised, when people tell me this is the way you have to do it or you must do it this way, there's no, I immediately revolt back. No, let's think that through for a minute. So I just knew I would be unhappy if I went that route and.

It took a lot of time for me to figure out exactly what I wanted to do. I had several clients that were the in-between of that certification and what I wanted to do and me figure out. And it was to their benefit surely. Cause I think I helped them out a great deal on their projects, but it was just me trying to figure that out. so I think that's probably when it served me the best, Because it helped me land.

to know exactly what my coaching would be and how it could grow and how I can sustain it in a way that works for me. I would say that's probably awesome. That's great. I think that's great for listeners to hear that we didn't have all the answers, but that's part of the journey is figuring it out as you go.

Cassie Newell (21:09.335)
Well, and cheers to you. think this is another topic we should talk about on another episode, but saying that you were listening to all the experts, right? And that feeling like, don't know enough that you must follow them, even though you broke that cycle before you published. But that's difficult when you're brand new, when you find an editor you like or somebody who's alpha reading or any of that stuff, or you go to a writing coach or

whatever, it's really difficult to know that this is the right way or the wrong way. Because as you said earlier, you have all this job experience and life experience, but sometimes in a creative pursuit, just, you break from that. You break from that and you don't trust yourself. think that's something we are going to dive into. How much do you, feedback do you take?

And when does it start to cloud your perception of your own work? So exactly. It's crazy. People have influence on other people for sure. Especially when they've been in the business a long time. Right. Well, cool beans. think, I think. Do you have anything else you want to add about how to manage self doubt and how to push through? No, I don't think so. I think it's time for table topics.

and personal updates. Let me draw a card. And for those of you just tuning in, what we want to do every week is just another little kind of way to get to know us better. And I have a card game that's called Table Topics, and I'm just going to draw a card. It's just going to be a fun question. Ooh, so lucky. This one actually pertains to writing. Not all of them do. Which author have you read most? That's today's question.

Thank you.

Cassie Newell (23:09.217)
my gosh. It's gotta be a tie. No, I think I've read more of her books for sure. So her name is J.R. Ward and she writes the Black Dagger Brotherhood books. And I have no idea what number book we're on. 27? wow. I've been reading it for two decades. it's like, if you don't know J.R. Ward,

It's going to be a romance fantasy, very adult. And as I described it to my best friend when I was telling her what I was reading eons ago, it's, Twilight for adults. a smutty Twilight or what's happening? my goodness. it's one of my favorites. It's an instant buy and interesting.

is that Passion Flix bought the project and they're producing it as a TV series. And yes, I'm one of those people. I love J.R. Ward. So of course I'm following. Of course I have Passion Flix waiting for it to come out whenever that happens next year. Yay. Amazing. So for you. Mine is Douglas Adams because

he was the very first author I read that got me interested in sci-fi. it's satire. I loved it because when I've read other sci-fi, just was too... I couldn't get into the story because I was sorting through all the techno babble. And there's nothing wrong with hard sci-fi. People love hard sci-fi and it's fantastic. There's a lot of great authors who write in that genre. As a reader, my mind would trail off the page.

but with Douglas Adams wrote the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It was so funny. And I was like, I love this. It's just like tongue in cheek and it's fun. it just inspired me so much. I've read almost all of his books and yeah, he's my favorite author. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. So what's happening for you? Updates, what's going on?

Cassie Newell (25:25.403)
I'm so excited. So I know I've talked about it a couple of times. So my debut book, CK Darling has launched buttercream and second beginning. It's my new venture and I'm all about building. So this is exciting. It's the two hour read, you know, over a weekend, couple lunch breaks, get all the feels. And I've written a series and it's interconnected, but they're standalones and

It's a second chance romance. So I'm super excited about it. to clarify, because there may be people who don't quite know when you're saying short, technically, what's short novella? What's the difference there? Is it truly two hour read? Is that short or short any? Well, a two hour read, obviously we all read at different speeds. However, Amazon has put together how many pages

equates to reading time. And so for one hour reads, it's usually around 50 to 60 pages. Gotcha. And that's usually around 15,000 words, maybe a little lower for novellas, which are about a two hour read and novella, as you know, is quite a range. It can be anywhere from 18,000 to 40,000. Some people will say that's a novella.

But for a two hour read, it's between 20 and 25,000 words. You don't want to go over 25,000 words. And I try to keep it. It's really difficult, but I try to keep it at 20,000. I go over a little, but I try never to go over 25 so that my arcs are really tight and things move quickly. So if you're somebody who likes to

read a lot of the prose and the buildup and the sensory shorts, probably not going to be free because that's all out. And Angela would know because she's, she was my alpha reader. like, I want to know more, but I can't because I need to explore this and move yet. Maybe if everybody's like, I love this book. It must be a full novel or something. Okay. We'll revisit it, but that's not the intention of it. So they're like,

Cassie Newell (27:42.957)
bingeable series like you would do on Netflix, little potato chip reads. Gotcha. That's their intention. No, it's going to be a fantastic series. So is the Alpha Raider. So I got the behind the scenes and I loved being part of that, seeing the progression. go, Cassie, I don't get this. And I'm like, you're right. Well, no, there are so many awesome things about it, but you're right. I don't read short personally and my books are really long. So it was, it was a fun.

amazing challenge because I kept asking you, is this a thing in short? Well, and that was something I needed to hear because I'd be like, I don't know, is it? Let me think. Yes, no, no. you know, like I was still, and I'm still figuring out my process and outline as to how to hit it and keep going because now

I'm writing for the next series in the same small town. So that's been challenging too. Tell us about your personal update. I've got my plus one equals you. And it's my debut romance. It's full length steamy, still trying to work out the chili pepper thing, but I think it's 2.65. That's what I'm just going with, which isn't a thing, but I'm making it a thing. It's up for pre-order now.

But the interesting thing is self-doubt has led me to hold onto it just a tad and go through it a little bit more. And I have found some things that I'm like, so I'm cutting. I'm actually trimming and cutting, which I probably shouldn't be doing right now, but I'm doing it because I think I went overboard on all the passionate reactions and there's just some consistency things that I keep finding. So it'll be the best.

it can be when it finally comes out January 30th. First of all, can I just say I was the alpha reader for this one and it is hilarious. I mean, it's not just a romance. It is a rom-com. Yes, true. It's romantic comedy. It is so funny and oh, you're not giving it justice. It's like I wrote a little romance. That's why I have you as my PR rep. Yeah. There we go. Okay. I'll hype you because I think it's...

Cassie Newell (30:02.378)
I love it. I think it's great. I'm like, you should be writing rom-coms full time. I may do that if this one works. All right. Well, till next time, keep writing, creating, and we'll see you next week for how to recognize and overcome burnout with our special guest, Holly Lyne. That's a good one. Thanks for tuning in. Thank you. Bye.