Episode 03: How to Recognize and Overcome Burnout with Holly Lyne

Cassie Newell (00:01.218)
Welcome to The Author Next Door, where hosts Angela Haas and Cassie Newell chat about the wild world of writing and publishing. Join them for weekly episodes and special monthly guests. Pull up a chair. The conversation starts now. So welcome to episode three. I'm Cassie Newell and I'm here with my co-hostess with the mostest, Angela Haas. And this month we're talking all about mindset. This episode we're talking with Holly Line about

Burnout Signs and How to Overcome Burnout. I'm so excited to introduce Holly. Holly is the author of the bestselling book Goal Setting for Writers. She is also a bullet journalist, enthusiast and podcaster with a knack for getting shit done. In addition to her nonfiction work, Holly has written over 10 dark and urban fantasy novels featuring flawed heroes, impossible choices and richly imagined worlds.

She helps writers to plan ahead, stay organized and productive and take care of their mental energy so that they can build a sustainable career. Welcome Holly to the podcast. It's so good to have you as our very first guest. guest. thank you. I'm so excited to have you. So with regards to burnout, I feel like let's just jump in. One of the questions I had.

for our listeners is how do you define burnout? It seems like such a personal definition, but for context for listeners, new writers, established writers, everything in between, how do you define burnout? Sure. So yeah, it is a very personal definition and different people will have different interpretations. But for me, it's defined by a lack of creative energy.

just not wanting or not being able to write or whatever it is you're burnt out from. It's that sort of hyper resistance to doing the work. And, you know, I think it's important to point out as well that it can be caused by other areas of your life. You can have burnout from, you know, a family situation or the world, you know, politics can burn your

Cassie Newell (02:24.046)
creativity out, can sap your creative energy out of you. It's got nothing to do with the creative work itself. So how does one manage that? is there a way to manage that? I mean, obviously I'm one of those high achiever people. So I go, okay, if I feel it, how do I recognize it? How do I manage it? what would you? Yeah, I mean,

The main thing is to, I suppose, protect yourself by curating your input. you know, none of us needs to watch the news 24 seven. you know, I think as Becca Syme said, news is to be checked, not watched. And I think that's really solid advice. and just protecting your energy levels and making sure that you're always doing activities that

provide you with energy rather than always doing things that drain you of energy and keeping the scales balanced. Angela, what do you do to keep the scales balanced? Do you do that? Do I? I try to. I think I just have to recognize in myself when I'm starting to have that feeling. It's sort of something that starts to creep over me and I'm like,

I'm getting tired. And I experienced that editing, like going through edits on my romance because it's on a deadline, it's on a pre-order. And I've been looking at it. Any spare time I have, I've been looking at it, thinking about it. And then today when I was finishing, I just started to notice, I'm like, I'm getting tired of this. I finished and I sent it off and thank goodness. And now I have to

take a breather and I close it all out of my, you know, on my desktop, take a step back, do something else, something not writing related to kind of clear my head just because I could tell I was getting to that point where I'm not going to be as effective as editing it because my mind is starting to feel tired of it, you know? So I try to just hear that little, you know,

Cassie Newell (04:45.952)
respond to that feeling when I'm having it. Before I used to just blaze through it. don't care. I've got to get this done, deadline, deadline, deadline, and just burn. Even to where my eyes felt drier, I could tell. It just wasn't as sharp. So now I just try to find balance by taking that step back and taking that breather, doing something not writing related for the day. Yeah. Holly, mean, just as

you talk about this, will you talk about how you've worked through burnout yourself? Sure. I'm just kind of curious. Yeah. So I had my first proper experience of burnout in 2021. I had had a crazy 2020, which a lot of us did for various reasons.

Cassie Newell (05:45.934)
I had released Goal Setting that year and I'd also pulled down my backlist and re-edited the books for my first series and given them new titles, new covers, the works, and then I rapid released them at the end of 2020. And I had taken on a virtual assistant and I was really trying to level up and I was pushing really, really hard.

And I just pushed myself way too hard. And I went into 21 just with nothing. And I had no idea. I didn't realize straight away. And I kept trying to push like most of the way into 2021. And I was, I was being coached at the time and thank goodness because my coach was able to help me to put the brakes on and was able to say.

be careful with what you're doing to yourself here because this is not good. So yeah, so I burnt out really badly in 21 and it stuck with me into 2022. But then I recovered very, very slowly and carefully and with coaching. But then relapsed this year. So

Yeah. And that was in a way harder because it's that double dip kind of thing. you know it. Yeah. And so although I recognized the signs the second time around, I was also kicking myself for letting it get as far as it got. Because I was like, I should know better. I've been here before. I should I should have known. So in a way, it's it's been harder this year.

ouch. Yeah. So when you talk about kicking yourself, mean, Angela and I talked about this in the past too, just personally together of how like, you're going, going, going, right? And these are our own businesses as indie authors, you know, we set the pace, but yet you

Cassie Newell (08:07.756)
you feel that trudge, you know, to do certain things and meet certain timelines and goals. how do you recognize signals and, and, kind of be kinder to yourself? Did you learn anything in that mechanism this year? Yeah, definitely. Because I had experienced it before, I was able to see what was happening. And I think I

I think I dealt with it much sooner than the first time around because of that experience. And I really consciously just said, right, I am stopping. And I think it was in May, was April or May this year, I stopped my podcast, I stopped, I'm like, completely ghosted my mailing list, which I don't recommend doing.

But yeah, I shut down everything. And I got rid of all of my business expenses, everything that was costing me money where I could, I got rid of it. And I really, really consciously took the whole summer off. I did not try to write anything. I didn't do any podcasts. I didn't I didn't read any craft books. I took a complete break. And I'm so glad that I did. Because I think if I had done that the first time,

I maybe wouldn't have relapsed. I think my question was, you kind of touched on this a little bit, but maybe like, what are your warning signs for you? I'm sure they're different for everyone else, the physiological, did you have physical symptoms?

And what are those and what are the psychological symptoms that you said like, it's happening? mean, I'm in it. Yeah, exhaustion is the physical thing. just really tired, never feeling like I've had enough sleep. And I you know, things like changes to appetite and, know, and really, it can be different in anyone because it depends what's causing your burnout.

Cassie Newell (10:32.04)
and what, you know, what your individual body chemistry is like, and stuff like that. mean, if you're under a lot of stress, real, like serious stress, and obviously, we know things like cortisol can have a really serious effect on the body. So you could end up with, you know, digestive issues, or headaches, or there's all sorts of things that could happen. But for me, was it was the exhaustion. And then it was all psychological on top of that. And it was

very much mirroring depression, really, just feeling no motivation, low mood, and just no interest in not just writing, but other creative things. I'm also musical. And for a couple of months over the summer, I just didn't, I didn't pick up my guitar at all. I just didn't want to. Just didn't want to. And that's unusual for me.

You know, it was a real stark contrast to any other time in my life. so for me, it was, yeah, it was all, it was psychological. Wow. I that really hurt your heart when you realize that the things you love to do, you no longer are wanting or having any context to them. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

It does. It breaks my heart because I think it's interesting because Angela and I have talked about burnout before. It's kind of that elusive word until you experience it. Yeah. Angela, do you think you've experienced a different type of burnout or similar burnout so far in your writing career and creative career? Oh yeah. I I burned myself out.

rewriting my book too, because of mostly self-imposed deadlines. So I think we all can suffer from being our own worst critic, our own worst grumpy boss who's imposing these rules and regulations on us. And I think because if you have any achiever or drive in you,

Cassie Newell (12:55.596)
you want to get things done and you want to get things out. I wanted to get my book to out into the world so bad, but it was not ready for other reasons that I'm sure we'll discuss head on their podcasts. But I was doing, I was writing eight hours a day, every day, but at night. So I was writing because I don't have time during the day because there's just so much going on with work and you

everything else in your life. And so I was starting to write at nine and then staying up sometimes till three or four because that's the only time I had. So I was not sleeping really because then I couldn't sleep all day. And I think sleep is, I think we don't understand the importance of sleep for our creative brains. And when we're burning out, I was exhausted because I wasn't sleeping. So I had a lot of brain fog.

So when I would go back to it, I wasn't as sharp and I kept missing things I was supposed to catch. And then I wear contacts so I could tell, you know, even because I wasn't sleeping, because I wasn't resting my eyes from a screen, my eyes were just felt like sandpaper. They just hurt so bad. So that was the biggest thing for me with burnout, whereas my eyes physically hurt, like were throbbing in my head.

And that's when I knew, but I didn't, ignored it and that's the problem. I just ignored it and pushed through. Do you feel like you came out the other side okay though? I did. Yeah, I did. I came out of it and I just had to decide, you know what? This is going to release when it release. I want it.

circle back to something Holly said, because I think this was my fear that I was letting too much of a gap between book one and book two. So I wanted it to be a year and it ended up being two years because I had to start from the beginning. then I was like, I'm going to lose all my readers that I've built up to follow book one. What am I going to do? that was driving some of that.

Cassie Newell (15:17.152)
But in the end, I burned myself out so much that I had to take a few months off. So then I missed my deadline anyway. But Holly, you said you had to ghost your mailing list. That's huge. That's huge. And it's something that we have to all make tough choices. There's no wrong in that. for the listeners who are feeling like, okay, what do I do when I need to take a break for the people who are on my mailing list?

and who follow my social media. How do you communicate that without saying, I'm gone forever, hang with me? What are some tips for listeners so that they can take that break that they need, but still keep their readers? depends on your personality type. And I think also where you are in your writing journey. think if you are a full-time author with tens of thousands of loyal followers,

you have a bit more responsibility, I guess. Yeah, you do have people who are waiting. And I don't think that should ever stop you from taking a break and doing what you need to do. But it's, it's another factor to consider. Whereas someone who's at the start of their author journey, who hasn't really built up much of a mailing list yet. Don't worry. Like, really, don't worry. And I say this with kindness. But no one really cares that much like,

you know, right, none of your readers are. I mean, maybe if you're lucky, you have a few who are like, genuinely really invested and really, really want the next book. But in that situation, I'm sure they would also understand you needing to take a break. But generally, people are not going to notice if they don't see you on social media or see you in their inbox, because they have their own life, they have their own concerns. And they're not

really that bothered. And I know how that sounds. Please take it with kindness. it's true. No one cares about you. No, that's not true. But I hope you see what I mean. But I would say if you are the kind of person who is comfortable being open and honest, then be open and honest. Tell your followers, tell your subscribers, I need to take a break. I didn't do that because I'm

Cassie Newell (17:43.788)
Relator in CliftonStrengths, and I don't over share. I barely share anything with anyone. Wait a minute, Holly. Now that we're talking CliftonStrengths here. I'm a number one Relator. I know. Does that surprise you? like, what? You told them what? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. So yeah, if you're quite a private person, you don't need to tell anyone. No one

you don't owe anyone an explanation. But if you want to tell people, if you're comfortable doing so, and if you I think particularly if you have a large following, then it's probably a good idea to say something, you don't have to tell everything. But I think it's perfectly fine to say, I'm going through some stuff, bear with me, I'll be back in touch soon. And you can put a day on it by I wouldn't, you know, you could say six months or a month or whatever. But

Don't be afraid to be honest, but also you don't have to tell anyone anything. It's okay. That's such good advice. feel like as indie authors, I hear more about burnout in this particular group in the industry than I do in traditional. And I, I kind of wonder if it's because we're always trying to work ahead, you know, and be ahead.

Because if you look at traditional publishing, although they've picked up in the recent years, most you might get a book once a year and it might not even be every 12 months. It might be every 18 to 20 months, just depending on the type of book. So listening to Angela go, I want to make that one year. You kind of go, yeah, but that's a normal schedule even longer than that. Right? Well, that's because I have compare itis.

and perfectionitis. And I think too, that's what causes burnout for me sometimes. have to stop following others. this is nothing against this group, but I think at the time I was in 20 books to 50 K group, which is a really positive group. For me, my personality, because I'm number one strategic, I've got competition in my top five. I just have a lot of action due.

Cassie Newell (20:10.75)
strengths. And I was seeing all these people with publishing three books a year and making all this money. And I had a million page reads. And I think that can contribute to driving yourself into a hole because I'm like, well, I got to be like this person. And why am I not doing that? I've got to crank out two books. That's taken me two years to write one. I got to do two in a year.

mindset was not serving of me. And I'm much better now, but when I started, it was pinging my competition like, well, I got to do that. I got to make money, a million page reads. I need that. it's like, I can't get there. And so I actually, again, not in any criticism, was for my own psyche, had to leave the group because I going down that rabbit hole every day with my scrolling and saying, why am I not here?

haven't I published this many books? And that was like, really, I was creating this whacked out schedule that like no one could have lived up to. So yeah, that's sometimes when you need to take a break from maybe what you're following and seeing other people doing. Absolutely. So how did you recognize you were out of burnout, Holly? Because we were talking ahead of recording.

And I had asked a few key questions just because I hadn't seen you in a while, but how did you recognize that you were out of it? I wanted to write. You had the desire. You were like, I'm, ready to pick up the guitar. I'm ready to write. I'm ready to, you just felt it. Yeah. And I think in all honesty, the first time I wasn't there yet. and I tried to make myself right anyway.

And I kept telling myself, you know, which is often true, motivation follows action is, is very often true. And sometimes I think if you're not in burnout, but you're just a bit, you know, you've got some resistance for some other reason, then yeah, just pushing ahead and making yourself do the thing can then generate motivation. And I was operating on that principle in 2022.

Cassie Newell (22:32.684)
And it did sort of work for a while and I did get going again and I wrote some stuff and I was able to publish a book in 22. But ultimately I wasn't really ready and so, you know, I relapsed and found myself back in the hole again. But yeah, like I said, I just stopped everything in May and I think it was towards the end, middle of October, middle of October, I started to...

And I was already doing music again that had come back and thing that I just wanted to do for fun and was just playing again. And I'd started getting out there and doing some open mic nights again. And then the desire to write started to ping. It was like, you know, like a radar ping, like a blip. And I didn't ignore it. I acknowledged it, but I didn't act on it.

And I was like, okay, I'm starting to get ideas. start, I'm starting to feel like I want to write something. This is good, but I'm not going to rush this. And I very consciously kept it on pause. And then it was early November. So only about a month ago, I couldn't stop myself. I couldn't stop. I was like, right, it's writing time. And I had.

Because during my burnout, my main thing was I kept project hopping. would start something, get sick of it, move to something else. I lose the enthusiasm and think, well, I need to start something new. And I have lots of new and different strengths. So very often that's good for me. I'm like, start something new and it generates momentum and then I can go back and finish the other thing. But I wasn't going back. So I have at the moment, five unfinished novels.

Um, I had six and there was just this, I don't know, this fierce need to finish something. I was like, I have to, I'm not ending 2024 having not finished anything. So it was just this overwhelming, I'm sitting down, I'm doing this and I finished, it was a, like a short story reader magnet that I have for my new series, new genre. And I just decided it's like, right, it's time.

Cassie Newell (25:00.396)
And I did. And I finished it in about 10 days. That's so great. Oh my gosh. I love that for you, Holly. I love that so much. I'm so excited. you able to talk about the genre at all? Yeah, sure. it a secret? No, it's not a secret. Although I do have a secret pen name, but nobody knows it. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's okay. The reason I ask about genre.

is I switched genres this summer that's launching in 2025 when this airs. And it is brought me so much life, so much life. So I was just curious in switching genres. Do you think that was part of the energy? And I'm curious to which genre you moved to because originally you, you know, we would say what dark fan dark

urban fantasy, right? In the past is it but it's different now? Yeah, so I mean, yes and no. So I switched genres a year ago. And it was it was done out of cynicism. it was I had got really fed up with urban fantasy. Not that that's not quite sound right. It's I still love urban fantasy.

But what has happened in the genre is it's become completely intermingled with paranormal romance. To the extent that you say you write urban fantasy, everyone thinks you mean paranormal romance. But my books were not romantic. They were more like Dresden Files. Not Twilight. So I was not selling and I couldn't, I couldn't market the books.

save my life just, you know, and I would like I tried to try to tick tock. I went all in on tick tock and I was creating videos like two, three times a day. And I was really trying to make it work. And one of the tricks to tick tock is to scroll first scroll and engage with content that's like yours, then post your content and then scroll and engage again. And

Cassie Newell (27:23.304)
that supposedly helps the algorithm to determine what your content is and who to show it to. But within, I think it was three days of using TikTok, I had gone through all of the urban fantasy content on TikTok. Wow. Wow. Everything else is paranormal romance. I would, you know, I would go to things that were tagged with urban fantasy, and find out what they were actually talking about were romance books. And so I was just so annoyed.

frustrated. I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna change genres because that will make my life easier. are you writing paranormal romance? No, no, Wait a minute. Where is this going? So, um, yeah, that's what the secret pen name is for. Secrets. But no, I decided that with my HB line brand, I was gonna

double down on the this is not romance and just go into secondary world grim dark fantasy. grim dark. What's grim dark? I don't know. It's like, you know, you're sort of George RR Martin, you know, it's epic fantasy, swords and sorcery, really dark, lots of death, no happy endings for anybody.

Um, yeah, like bordering on horror. It's like, it's a kind of mashup of fantasy and horror. Okay. And usually there's a psychology twist. you do that too? Do you have those psychological twists? I can't stop myself. I would think that would be excellent. So that was what I had decided to do. And I had, but it was, again, I was kind of like,

need something that's easier to market, but then I didn't make it easier to market. I did what I always do. And did a mashup. they they're fantasy, but they're fairy tale retellings. okay. And, I, I'm here for it. I'm here for it. I'm here. So that was why I started writing in January this year. And

Cassie Newell (29:45.226)
And I was absolutely in love with it. And I was having such a good time. But then the doubt and the negativity and the how the hell am I going to market this returned all the same things that I had with urban fantasy. And I was like, Romantic is everywhere. Every time I go on TikTok, it's all about Romantic. This is going to be just as bad, like just as hard as urban fantasy. And that was really what

tipped me into burnout was that kind of that realization that I'm not making life easier for myself at all with this decision. This is not, you know, what am I doing? And so I started asking myself those existential questions like, why am I even doing this? Do I want to do it at all? And I had, I had sort of decided just to quit. And, and that and it was when I sort of caught myself and went

whoa. Okay, this is burnout talking. Because I knew in my heart, I didn't want to quit writing. It was the pressure that I put on myself to run a successful business. That was what was causing me to feel like I didn't want to do it at all. So it was that was a big red flag. And that was the reason why I was like, just stop all business activities. Just stop.

It's sad that marketing is such a joy stealer sometimes. That stopped me on a few products because I'm like, I can't market this. That's too bad because there could be readers out there who want this, are kind of maybe they've read all the romantic scene, they want something new, but where do you put it? That can cause us to...

know, it takes away from our writing because then we jump in the hamster reel of like trying to market and then that also can contribute. I mean, I've experienced that with the superhero fiction because it was my passion and my love and it does not fit neatly into science fiction. And there really is only science fiction. There's only science fiction. know, like urban fantasy has all these sub genres.

Cassie Newell (32:07.408)
Now there's some genres of science fiction, but they're kind of all in the same hard science fiction vein. There's military, space opera, there's first contact, there's exploration. They're all tech based, heavy sci-fi. I want to write about superheroes in space. And no, I don't want to go into the in-depths of space travel because can't they just be on this planet fighting crime and...

falling in love and being superheroes? No, apparently not. So yeah, that can cause you to take a step back and be like, man, I have this love and passion and I'm so excited about this. It doesn't fit neatly on any shelf, quote unquote. So that's too bad. But do think you'll go back to it? So this is part of how I've recovered.

done the work on myself. So while I was not writing, I was working on my mindset and a few people that I trust and whose thoughts I really admire and I kept listening to them even when I'd shut out so many other things. I was still listening to Becca Syme. I was still listening to Brian Cohen.

And I was also listening to Johnny B Truant, who used to be a really big name in the indie space. He was one of the guys behind Sterling and Stone, and the right published repeat book and the podcast. All of that. And I've been following Johnny since I first became an indie author. So like 11, 12 years. And I'm on his fiction mailing list. And he started putting out these emails over the summer about

leaning into being weird, and not following the rules. And, and I find myself replying to him every week and going, thank you. Like, I really needed to hear this today. And we would get into a back and forth. And so we, you know, we would have these conversations. And I realized that I need to write what I love.

Cassie Newell (34:32.62)
I have to and if it's not marketable, you know, I have to feed my soul to enjoy myself and to gain energy, I have to just write what I want to write. And if it's not what you know, millions of other people want, then fine. But actually, you'll probably find that there are people just like you Angela who want exactly what you want to write. And I know there are people who want to read what I want to write.

it might just, you know, be hard to find them. But I have to write the books and put them out there and trust that the readers will find me. So rather than getting on the hamster wheel of trying to find readers, trying to find readers, market, market, market, I am just going to write, publish, repeat, and just see what happens and just trust the universe. I love that so much. I love it. That feels like the perfect end because

I think so many times, I'm guilty of this as well, that you hear the gurus, if you will, right to market, right? I'm sure we've heard that a thousand times, right to market, right to market. And what you're saying is right to feed you, the market will come. And I love that. I love that so much. That is like perfect.

I love, think that the takeaway is, there's a reason when you get on an airplane, they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first, right? Because if you're in a crisis and you burn yourself out and you can't help the person next to you, you're both done. So feeding your soul as a writer first, that I think that just creates this energy that you're doing what you love.

and you're putting that out there, I think it's kind of if you build it, they will come. And that's why I'm just going to keep going forward. If there's a story I want to write, I'm going to write it. And we all want to make money and we all want to run our businesses and find those people. And I want to have the million page reads, but at the same time, I want to put out something I love too. And I think that's a great way to continue with our theme of mindset is like feeding your soul as a writer.

Cassie Newell (37:01.068)
put your oxygen mask on first, take care of you, and the good work will come. And then so will the readers. I also think, Holly, I bet, have you engaged your newsletter again? I bet there are quite a few opens. I think that's also a misnomer that when you shut down a newsletter that they won't come back because I totally did the same thing. When I started my career,

in 2016, I wrote in the most popular genre ever, young adult fantasy, because well, I had children, that's what I was writing, all the things. And I took a two year break because I was having trouble with the second book. And I didn't do anything with my newsletter. But when I came back and I started engaging and it was like, oh, people were like, oh yeah, I did subscribe to her. Oh, she has something, you know, I try to give value every time I do a newsletter.

I don't like those newsletters where it's just, hello, I'm here every week. Like those annoy me, like have value for me. So, you know, people come back. Has that surprised you at all? No, I felt fairly confident that because I had just before I shut everything down, I had completely culled my list.

I've done the whole, you know, re engagement thing because my opens had dwindled to almost nothing. And I had a big list. And so I did the thing I put out an email with a link in it saying, I'm, and I didn't, I didn't share, didn't share why because hi, Relator. But I said, I'm making some changes on the back end. If you still want to be on my list, you have to click this link. If you don't click this link, you'll be unsubscribed. And

I lost about 90 % of my list. It went from really quite big to really quite small. And it was hard. It was really hard to see all those people go. Just, it was quite like, they don't care about me. know? And I'm so the opposite. I'm like, clean it, baby. Clean it. But once I'd gone over the shock, you know, losing thousands of people, I was like,

Cassie Newell (39:22.028)
know, do you know what? It's fine. They weren't my people. Yeah. And the people who stayed, they're my people. And so I knew when I came back and started emailing again, I knew it would be fine because they wanted to be there. And they were and they are. And no one replied saying, Oh my god, where have you been? No one had noticed. Yeah, they don't really. I think people's memories are like, I can't remember. I'm not sitting hovering over my inbox and being like,

It's been exactly, it's day 42. No email from Holly. Where is she? I've got the hash marks on my wall like day 43, no email. No one is like, oh, they're probably like, oh, did I hear from her? Oh, well, who cares? No one is thinking back that far because remember, we're always thinking about 5,000 different things at the same time. So yeah, your people are going to stay with you and...

That's probably a better and stronger mailing list. So good for you. You did it. All right. Before we wrap up, we're going to do a hot seat question, courtesy of Angela. She's going to pull a card and each of us are going to answer this random question to get to know us a little better. Yes. And this is a really fun product. Hello, Table Topics, if you're listening.

These are wonderful cards. They're just kind fun conversation starters just for, you know, if you're at a dinner party and want something fun to kind of talk about or get to know your guests or things like that. So we're going to pull a card. I don't know what it is. I'm just pulling it out of the deck. boy. Okay. This is something I need to do more of, but the question is...

What are your favorite workout songs? How about any songs that inspire you? Because I haven't been working out as much. I've been writing. Hello. I can answer that quite easily. Okay, yes. Tell us. And it kind of it really bizarrely ties into the making marks on the wall and wondering where someone is. So it's my number one like

Cassie Newell (41:43.946)
get fired up, get pumped up, get motivated, whether it's to work or to work out is work bitch by Britney Spears. nice. I love it. I put that on in the shower and I sing along and like do a little dance. yeah, do. Yeah. But I was I was part of the free Britney movement. So it just reminded me of what you were saying. An important movement. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. important.

I'm looking through my iTunes. So go Cassie. got to find my... my gosh. I was sitting here going, I could sing it, which would be horrible for all of you. But it's a Meghan Trainor song and I'm not going to find...

Cassie Newell (42:31.42)
yeah, I got mine. I got it. Okay. I'm ready. didn't know the title of it. knew that, you know, how you like, you know, the chorus of songs, but in the old days, the choruses were the titles, but now we're all tricky about it. Have you ever heard Megan Trainor's Me Too? Yes. I can sing it and choreograph a dance to it, but that's another skill.

I think it's, one of those empowering me songs. If I can sing to it and I'd be like, you know, if I was you, I'd want to be me. You know, she's got it. I be like, I'd be pumped up about that. That's like a pump up song for me. Yeah. But also like any Foo Fighters songs, cause I am a diehard Foo Fighters person. Love. Like that will pump me up to no end. but anything with like.

empowering myself or really hard beats is good for me. Unless it's yoga, then it needs to be yoga-y. Let's bring it down. You can do that yoga, like a little beat. Namaste. Me too. The best of you, Foo Fighters. All right. Yeah, let's go. Okay, Angela. I have a running playlist. so one of my favorite

a couple pump up songs was this is a really weird song, but you should Google it. It's called Duck Sauce by Barbra Streisand or the song is named Barbra Streisand by Duck Sauce. I know other one. I love How You Like Me Now by The Heavy because it's like how you like me now. boom. And you're like, Yeah. Yeah. We are the yeah. Let's go. Yeah. need those like.

you know, facilitating songs that really jazz you up because, girl, I don't like to exercise. No. I need something that's kind of pushing me That's part of a good mindset. I got to get back into it in 2025. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So before we wrap up, Holly, where can people find you? How do they sign up for your...

Cassie Newell (44:51.948)
Email list, sign up for your new email list. know, If you like the idea of my fiction, which is always, um, morally gray characters and complex situations. Uh, I'm at HB line.com and line is spelled L Y N E. Um, but I do also coach authors. So if you're struggling with burnout and would like to talk to someone about it, you can find everything at writer roadmap.com. Perfect.

Thank you for the chat today, Holly. A true pleasure. Our number one guest. First guest. Our first guest. And next week we're talking about finding balance and being inspired. And I have to say this interview was really inspiring. So thank you for sharing so much of yourself, Holly, for us. really appreciate it. Thank you for coming on. Yeah. Until next time. Until next time.

Thanks for joining today's episode of The Author Next Door. Be sure to like, follow, and tell us your thoughts of this week's episode. Angela and Cassie would love to hear from you.