Episode 14: Craft Fair Kickoff, Exploring Writing Resources

Cassie Newell (00:01.602)
Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is episode 14. It's a new month. It's April and we're talking about craft. I'm Cassie Newell and I'm here with my co-host Angela Haas. And this month it is all about craft. This is gonna be such a fun month. This episode we're kicking off our craft fair discussions, if you will, exploring what we love and how, I'm sorry, what we love and about craft all month long. So.

Angela Haas (00:15.118)
.

Cassie Newell (00:30.284)
Let's talk about some of our favorite resources we like. know that Angela and I kind of prepared ahead of time to talk about the resources that we enjoy and that have inspired us and given us some information to move our skill set forward. So with that, Angela, I'm going to hand it off to you and talk about maybe one of the first resources you want to talk about. Maybe we could go back and forth. Is that sound good?

Angela Haas (00:58.426)
Yeah, that sounds great. I think too, this just popped into my head. I wonder just for some listeners, know, what do we mean by craft too? What is actually the crafting piece of

Cassie Newell (01:00.374)
Okay.

Cassie Newell (01:08.13)
yeah.

Angela Haas (01:13.472)
putting your novel together. And for me, think it's, you know, picking genre, picking theme, your world building, building your characters, deciding what point of view you want to talk in, which we'll deep dive into later. But that's what craft is. It's just all about putting the building the different pieces and then putting them all together. When I started out, I knew

infinity less than zero about actually crafting my novel. And I'm a pantser, which means I sort of fly by the seat of my pants. So I was, I would write a scene, stick it in there, start at the end, work my way backward, but I didn't really have the knowledge to connect it all together. So I started

looking for things that would help me. And actually one of the very first things that I signed up for was the Story Grid. It's an editor certification. And while I didn't become an editor, because early on I figured if I'm editing other people's work, I'm never going to publish my first book. But the Story Grid really breaks down each genre.

Cassie Newell (02:30.349)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (02:38.678)
their themes, what each genre requires, obligatory scenes, and I learned a lot from Story Grid and how to build. Then from there, I just, you know, started joining different writers groups and then got different craft recommendations. So one of the first ones, I'm going to share this.

Master List for Writers by Brynn Donovan. This is really helpful because it helps you with just 25 ways to write funny dialogue, making metaphors, it gets really specific sounds for settings. Sometimes you don't think about those things when you're writing, but just all kinds of different lists.

Cassie Newell (03:28.395)
Right.

Angela Haas (03:34.208)
at a glance and this one was really helpful. The other one was...

Wonder Book. my gosh, because I'm secretly 12 inside, I like pictures, okay? So this is all about world building and it's the illustrated guide to creating imaginative fiction. But the way that Jeff Vandermeer has structured this book, it's

I love how it's organized, but I love how there is a lot of visuals because I'm such a visual learner. This really is a helpful world building source. then of course, I mean, Sasha Black forever. She has so many books, but when I first learned about the Anatomy of Prose, she really does deep dives.

Cassie Newell (04:15.682)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (04:36.276)
on all kinds of things, but when she was talking about writing with all five senses, I mean, that shouldn't seem so obvious, but it wasn't. And then she really lays out how to use sound, sight, smell. Sometimes we only work from sight, right? But she really helped me incorporate all the other sensory information in, and those were so helpful.

Cassie Newell (04:43.693)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (04:56.322)
Right.

Angela Haas (05:04.973)
So those I mean Those are my top the other one. I'm gonna put in the show notes is one stop for writers and those That's a website created by the authors of the emotion thesaurus and It really is one stop for writers you can It's kind of like a campfire kind of software, but it does help you with world building and really

Cassie Newell (05:28.547)
Right.

Angela Haas (05:31.758)
There's an emotional wound thesaurus that will help you like build that into your characters. That one was so helpful for me too. So there's so much out there, but those are the ones that really stuck with me that I learned from. So how about you? Where did you start? think back to your very first book that you were writing.

Cassie Newell (05:48.824)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (05:53.118)
Yeah, so for me, Deborah Chester, it's the fantasy fiction formula. If you've ever met me, I always talk about this book. It's my favorite favorite. And I think it's just good for story, especially for beginners, because it talks about how to advance your plot really well. It's really good on world building magic systems, letting you have your emotional playtime.

Angela Haas (06:12.142)
Mm.

Cassie Newell (06:23.008)
all the things but it's very organized in a way to tell you, you know, how to craft conflict, how to ensure your scene doesn't fail, all the things. I mean, it's so good. And and she's she was a professor, I believe at the University of Oklahoma, if I'm not mistaken, as well. And she she's written so many books and Jim

Butcher even recommends it like it's it's really pretty renowned. It's been around for a long time, but it is a staple. Whenever I feel super lost, I usually grab that. And when I was writing my young adult fantasy, it was like it was also inspiring and motivating at the time. So that was heaven. And you were talking about the emotion thesaurus, which is one of my all time reference books for craft, as you can see by all the ridiculous tabs.

Angela Haas (06:49.618)
Mm.

Angela Haas (07:16.192)
Wow.

Cassie Newell (07:18.978)
that I have here, but you know, I am a writing coach as well. And I had this one client and we were talking about how you work on character arcs. And maybe we'll talk about that later. But one of the simple ways to do that is when you're not sure is pulling up your emotion thesaurus and deciding who your character is in the beginning. And then on the opposite side, find the emotion that's the opposite.

and that's how they're going to get there. So you keep those two words very simply in place of your goalposts as you're writing your character. And I just find that really helpful. And at the beginning of this thesaurus, it's not just a thesaurus. They have these great like prelog information on how to use it, how to demonstrate reactions and insecurities and comfort zones and all these things.

Angela Haas (08:02.446)
.

Cassie Newell (08:14.466)
when you're building your character. And I just find it really, really helpful. It's like a go-to when I'm writing and I'm like, I'm not really sure how this person is gonna be as I'm building them and I use it a lot. And then kind of where I am in my stage of writing and my experience and background. This is one of my favorites and it's the Anatomy of a Bestseller.

Angela Haas (08:20.19)
Nice.

Angela Haas (08:34.382)
Yes.

Cassie Newell (08:41.708)
And the reason why I like this book from Sasha Black is, you know, there's so many times we talk about comps, right? comps for books and how you're going to market and sell. Well, this is take the best seller of those comps and break it down and figure out how they did it. And I love that. And it actually motivated me to deconstruct a number of novels and things. And when we say deconstruct,

I know a lot of times you'll see on bookstagram or book talk people highlighting and tabbing things. Well, it's very specific. It's around character, plot, motivation, conflict, trope, all the things that, you know, encompass craft as we define it. But it really teaches you how to emulate those things as you're reading it and seeing it. And so you're not only

Angela Haas (09:16.609)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (09:41.09)
reading for entertainment purposes. It does kind of ruin that for you a little bit. But I don't know, I Sasha will say it's ruined reading for her. But for me, I can turn that side of my brain off and still entertainment read. But I have to focus when I'm deconstructing. And the last book which I couldn't find on my shelf, it's probably next to my bed is Romancing the Beat. I love that one. And even though it's Romancing the Beat,

Angela Haas (09:44.773)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (10:06.663)
yes.

Cassie Newell (10:09.006)
before how to write beats and the structure for romance novels, I still find it really helpful outside of romance because it's very structured and it basically is teaching you how to manage tropes and conflict and ensuring you're getting your inciting incidents in all the things. So I find it really helpful. It's a very skinny book. It's a really fast book, but it's a gem.

So for me, those are probably my top. And I think the fiction formula, the fantasy fiction formula is just an all time favorite. it's just like, it's my number one to always recommend. So yeah.

Angela Haas (10:46.469)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (10:52.234)
That's awesome. So when talking about craft, when you're in the drafting, crafting phase, what are your favorite pieces to create? Is it characters? Do love the world building? What comes to you that's easy and what you love about craft?

Cassie Newell (11:15.306)
interesting. think I'm a bit of a quilter. So I'm not a pantser. I'm not a super thick outliner. I call myself a quilter, kind of did a little blog on that. I kind of piece things together as they come to me. I tend to go to character because I think character drives story. I am of the firm belief that plot is a backdrop to the activities that happen.

Angela Haas (11:36.557)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (11:43.779)
to characters for characters to make decisions and characters drive the story. That's how I work and I find characters to be the most important. However, with that said, I also think settings can be a character. And I definitely leaned into that with Peachwood Grove to a certain extent. So I think it's all in how you treat it. But for me,

Angela Haas (12:00.566)
Yes. Yes. Yes, you did.

Cassie Newell (12:13.802)
I'm a character girl, but I'm also not the character girl that has pages and pages of details about that character. That stuff drives me nuts. Because I am a quilter, I tend to have an idea of where who my character is. Again, goalposts. I'm, you know, for example, one character, I would say she's very ballsy and a boss babe.

Angela Haas (12:22.058)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (12:39.086)
But she also has some sensitivity and she doesn't always get what she wants. So I have these two goal posts to write about her. But as I'm writing and moving around, I'm learning who she is. And so in the editing phase, I can tighten it up because now I know exactly who she is. And I like that discovery, pantsy type thing, because if I know everything about them,

Angela Haas (12:51.758)
Yes.

Cassie Newell (13:07.16)
then I don't really care to write about them, which is awful to say. And to me, I have to like my characters to write about them and even villains. Like I had some whoppers in my YA fantasy. Like I love a good, delicious villain. I'm quite wicked in that way. So, but I need to like them and understand their motivation. So for me, it is a character thing. What about you?

Angela Haas (13:25.742)
I would say characters first for me, but I first start with their personalities based on like either Enneagram or Myers-Briggs. So I love this

Cassie Newell (13:41.614)
Mm.

Cassie Newell (13:46.956)
Really?

Angela Haas (13:49.24)
There's a website that I actually use in my professional career for training all the time. It's called 16personalities.com. And I will put that link in show notes also for people who are interested in. It's a really great simplified version of the Myers-Briggs test that you can take for free. But they also have all the personalities that you can just click on and study. So,

Because I've done trainings, I know what an ISTJ kind of personality is. I'm an ENTJ, and for those listeners who don't know each letter, describes something different about our personalities, our energy level, whether we're introverted, extroverted, how we take in information, make decisions, and plan. So to me,

Cassie Newell (14:25.208)
right.

Cassie Newell (14:42.146)
Right.

Angela Haas (14:45.486)
If I know someone is an extroverted feeler, I know what kind of personality traits they have, and that helps me write that character. And then it also helps me have a framework to refer to. Like, you know, I kind of strayed, and that's not exactly how an ISTJ would communicate. So that helps me a lot. I actually...

Cassie Newell (15:03.661)
Hmm.

Angela Haas (15:13.556)
like to do the personality test. But I agree with you. Like I've seen some of those character sheets that are like, they are so long and it's such details of. I mean, if it's pertinent to the story, yes, understanding what their favorite food is. Maybe they, I mean, in My My Plus One Equals You, Rachel is obsessed with tater tots. Well, just potatoes in all forms.

Cassie Newell (15:20.266)
yeah.

Cassie Newell (15:31.267)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (15:43.7)
Maybe also because I am, but that came into play. And so I used that. That was part of the scenes that required tater tots and it worked. Anyway, but I think getting down to their political beliefs, deepest fears, sometimes you don't need all that to start. And I think that's sometimes what overwhelmed me was

feeling like I had to have all this detail before. Whereas for us, being a quilter and I'm, you know, I'm starting to outline more, but I'm a discovery writer in that I feel like you get to know your characters as you start writing them because things pop up where you're like, yeah, where you start to write.

Cassie Newell (16:13.837)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (16:28.856)
Yeah, well, they're 2D. They're 2D until you start using them in your story, right? Yeah, for sure.

Angela Haas (16:35.456)
Exactly. So you don't want to be too pigeonholed into their, you know, how they would react to someone leaving a shopping cart in the middle of a parking space. I mean, you just,

Cassie Newell (16:40.203)
Right.

Cassie Newell (16:46.582)
Yeah, good tip I gave a client too that was getting started, who was overwhelmed by those type of character sheets. I said, cast them. Cast, because she watches a lot of TV and movies and things and I was like, cast them. She was like, well, they're too old now. I'm like, don't look at the actor. Look at whatever movie or TV show they were in and cast them based on that character.

Angela Haas (17:05.347)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (17:12.567)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (17:16.918)
And if you know how that character reacts in that show, you will know how the character is going to react and behave in your manuscript. Because sometimes I think too, like there are some really great books on characters, and how to develop characters and, you villains and all the things which I think are fabulous to do. But if you're looking for something where you're like, I just want to go, I have this idea and I need to fiddle and see

Angela Haas (17:43.365)
Mm hmm.

Cassie Newell (17:45.678)
Casting is such a great quick method to do. I love casting. And sometimes I'm casting based off of, and this is horrible, but it's like profiling, based off looks. I don't really know the person. I don't know like what they've been in or whatever. It may just be a model that I have an idea of how they're gonna act. I think it's helpful because I'm visual too. So seeing them kind of helps.

Angela Haas (17:45.966)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (18:12.718)
Because I'll be writing and I'm like, blue eyes, brown eyes. Green eyes, what? Nope, there's the picture. Nope, brown. You know, like, you know, it kind of keeps it all together. So, yeah.

Angela Haas (18:22.266)
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I lean into Pinterest heavily for that. So each novel has its own board where I have characters, but also I have world building ideas, like pictures of

Cassie Newell (18:28.223)
Mm. Yeah.

Angela Haas (18:40.574)
what the setting would be, houses or building, you know, different buildings, stuff like that, because I struggle with world building. I can see it in my brain, but it's very difficult for me to write it in a prosy, beautiful way, because I just, the way that my brain works, I can see an image, but it's so hard for me.

Cassie Newell (18:59.822)
Mm.

Angela Haas (19:08.942)
to it unless I see it. I have to see it. When I see the picture, then I can describe it. If I don't see a picture or something close, I struggle. So the world building for me, I don't know how that is for you, but it's tougher for me.

Cassie Newell (19:24.91)
I don't know that that comes. Well, I would say it depends. It came really easy for me in the young adult fiction or fantasy that I wrote first. But I also wrote a full novel to pitch that was Y A fantasy in third person. And I thought I had an idea of how it was. And when you read my draft, like it needs some.

Angela Haas (19:49.89)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (19:53.91)
and needs some help. you know, it's like those little lines of like, there's an arena. Well, what what kind of arena, right? Like, you have to kind of place the things around. So sometimes it comes easier to me than others. I like when I have the full freedom of full fiction make believe. I love that because then it's open and all the things.

Angela Haas (20:01.282)
Right. Hello. Yeah.

Angela Haas (20:15.224)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (20:21.72)
when it gets a little bit more contemporary or true to life and I'm using a real city, then it gets a little heavy, you know, but it's still fiction. So I don't know, I go back and forth. think, again, I think I'm like you. I like to know visually and then I can kind of go from there. And sometimes I feel it, I fill in my backgrounds and settings in the editing process.

Angela Haas (20:49.766)
Yes.

Cassie Newell (20:51.342)
I'm a skinny drafter. I am a fast skinny drafter for the most part, although knock on wood, it's not going fast right now. And then I tend to do like these three rounds of edits, which are almost not really edit edits. They're more like building out because I write skinny. And then I come in and do the details because by the end of the book, I can see it.

Angela Haas (20:53.23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cassie Newell (21:16.524)
And that's part of that pantsing quilting aspect because you've gotten to know everything. So I just let myself not know everything upfront sometimes on the setting or how something looks inside until I get to the end. And then I'm like, yeah, I know. And then I can fill it out.

Angela Haas (21:22.38)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm the opposite with world building in that when I was doing the superhero fiction in like superheroes in space, those worlds were very difficult.

Cassie Newell (21:45.139)
Mm. Right.

Angela Haas (21:50.388)
create. I could see them, but again I could not get it on page very well. It took a lot of coaching and editing. When I wrote My Plus One Equals You that takes place in Scottsdale where I live part-time, that was like, my gosh, I'm gonna put the real restaurant in here I love. And I know exactly what it smells like and feels like. I've been in there. I love this place. And it translated on page because I love it so much so I could describe it.

Cassie Newell (22:05.291)
Easy peasy.

Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (22:18.392)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (22:18.466)
because I was sitting at the table and that was so much easier for me than coming up with a fake world. So writers out there, you just have to find.

Cassie Newell (22:23.139)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (22:27.19)
Yeah, I feel a little heavy when it's like something I know because then I'm like, am I doing it do justice, you know, like, my head, I don't feel that way on the makeup stuff. I'm just like, I can do that. It is

Angela Haas (22:34.861)
Right.

Angela Haas (22:39.158)
Yeah. Yeah. It's different for everyone. And that's a saying writers, you've got to find out what works for you.

Cassie Newell (22:48.684)
and you don't know what works for you until you just keep at it, right? Because I used to say, I'm an outliner. And then I met some heavy outliners. And I was like, no, I'm not quite like that. Because they will outline it almost as draft beats. Like, there's not much to complete in between some really heavy outliners. And I was like, wow, no, I have like three sentences.

Angela Haas (22:53.762)
Okay.

Angela Haas (23:15.686)
Right.

Cassie Newell (23:17.462)
this is happening, this is happening, you know, and I kind of do go to the end and then I'm like going back and I'm all around it. So, you know, I kind of was like, obviously an oddball. But anyway, works for me. So

Angela Haas (23:33.325)
That's, you just have to do the research, get some input, and then find what works for you. I will say, I think whether you're a pantser or plotter or a quilter, there are some steps with craft. think researching comps, but also you still have to pick your genre, obviously, and understand what

tropes and obligatory scenes and what reader expectations are with that genre. And then some people tell you to pick a theme. What is the theme of your novel? What is in one sentence, what's the character motivation? What's the overall lessons? Whether you want to do that or not, that's a premise, right? Then you start plotting, building character, world building, dialogue setting.

What plot structure are you following the hero or heroine's journey? You know, that's all part of craft. And I think there is something to say, like you do have to start small sometimes and pick the, again, you know, genre theme, basic character concepts before you can just start diving in, because that might save you some work later. If I have a craft,

Cassie Newell (24:56.332)
Yeah, rework. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, what a great kickoff. This is going to be a fun month because I have to say, yeah, as a coach and going through Author Accelerator and some of the other courses, and I know you've gone through, I am opinionated about a lot of things when it comes to craft. So this is going to be fun.

Angela Haas (24:58.89)
advice piece of advice. So yeah.

Yeah!

I think so.

Angela Haas (25:25.942)
Yes, we have some great guests this month. But what, let's talk about some personal updates. What are, what are you working on? Where are you? What's exciting in your life right now?

Cassie Newell (25:26.062)
You

Cassie Newell (25:37.006)
Oh my gosh. Oh, so many fun things. So I'm going to do a big shout out of something I haven't said yet. You heard it here first. I'm doing audio books for the short series. And can I just say the narrators? I'm so excited. I am so excited. I can't believe they're coming to life. So book four.

Angela Haas (25:47.246)
my god.

Angela Haas (25:52.598)
So exciting.

Cassie Newell (26:05.644)
Right now is launching April 15th, which is super exciting. And I've got big plans with print formats and audio formats that are happening. And it's just kind of amazing right now. So you heard it here first. That's what I'm doing. What have you been up to?

Angela Haas (26:25.0)
Yeah, her. I, I've been moving out of a house and that's all I'll say. That was crazy. and so it's hard to find balance, you know, when you have life events like that, I feel like I'm playing catch up and trying to get back into my writing routine. So I am just drafting.

Cassie Newell (26:40.461)
Angela Haas (26:50.262)
my second romance, No Mountain High Enough, which takes place on a Colorado dude ranch. So we'll talk more about that as I get it written. But that's what I'm trying to focus on. just haven't been doing much marketing, but I just giving myself grace and like, you know, all I want to do right now is write and get more books out. And that's my focus.

Cassie Newell (26:59.288)
So fun.

Cassie Newell (27:11.436)
I took your advice. I'm giving myself grace too, because I have been awful about marketing and

Angela Haas (27:27.67)
I'm leaving that in. I'm gonna leave it. I think that was hilarious. I think that's hilarious. People are gonna be like, okay, so for those not who can't see us, the cat had to walk in front of the screen because as you cat owners know, they can't let you, they can't let you do this. They have to be like, also I'm here. Do understand that there's a cat in the room? Yeah. So that was hilarious.

Cassie Newell (27:48.674)
No.

Angela Haas (27:55.918)
How about a table topic?

Cassie Newell (27:57.362)
Oh yes, let's get to it.

Angela Haas (28:00.61)
Okay.

Cassie Newell (28:01.608)
what I was trying to say before my cat rudely interrupted me was I took your advice and I gave myself grace because I haven't been marketing as hard either. I took your words of wisdom and I was just like you know I can only do so much and that will break me so I needed to back out just a little bit so it's it's good good advice.

Angela Haas (28:17.262)
you

Angela Haas (28:25.775)
Good! See? Sometimes I have some good advice. Mostly it's bad. gosh, some of these are terrible. my goodness. Okay. Well, let's do some of these table tops. Okay.

Cassie Newell (28:31.456)
please, like all the time. Give yourself some credit.

Angela Haas (28:49.39)
Alright, is, okay, this is a good one. Is it worse to discover your fly is down, which I wear elastic waist all the time, so I don't have to worry about it, spinach is in your teeth or toilet paper is stuck to your shoe.

Cassie Newell (29:04.833)
Which is worse?

Angela Haas (29:06.412)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (29:08.97)
Okay, well, I did have this experience and it was pretty awful. I was wearing lovely professional black pants. I was on stage in front of a thousand people. My zipper was down and I was wearing white underwear. And I got behind the podium because I felt it go down.

Angela Haas (29:29.016)
Angela Haas (29:33.781)
my gosh.

Cassie Newell (29:37.79)
It was like just not locking. You know how zippers like come in and lock.

Angela Haas (29:41.993)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (29:45.07)
But you know, it had a flap over it. So I don't know exactly if it was yapping or not. Well, a few people did because they said something to me. They were just like, in the front row going like this, a couple of my colleagues, this was a work big work thing. And I was just like, and I was younger too. And I was just like, Oh, my guys, who went behind the podium, and I zipped up and I just kept talking, you know, doing my presentation. And then as soon as I got off stage, and

Angela Haas (29:48.878)
Probably no one saw it. I'm gonna go with no one saw it. Yeah.

Angela Haas (30:11.284)
Yeah, no.

Cassie Newell (30:14.08)
I ran up to my hotel room and I put on a different pair of because I was like, you have failed me. But yeah, I felt like that was pretty awful. Like, I feel like I get stuff in my teeth all the time. So, I mean, it's not great, but I haven't really walked out with toilet paper on my shoe, but you know.

Angela Haas (30:35.662)
The moral of the story is elastic pull-up pants with no fly saves lives. I mean, that's just the moral. B, so you did the right thing though by not drawing attention to it because it's what I used to tell my speech students, your audience won't remember your mistake, but they will remember your reaction to it. So if you would have been like, oh my God, you know.

Cassie Newell (30:41.454)
That is.

Cassie Newell (30:58.85)
Yeah. I'm in of all the doctors and everybody in front of me. my.

Angela Haas (31:02.798)
Yeah. You were just like, I live here. What's your problem? That's yeah. Yes, exactly. I personally, because I'm obsessed with things in my teeth, if I've had spinach in my teeth or something while I've been talking and no one says anything. Hello, you are obligated to tell someone.

Cassie Newell (31:11.714)
like those pants betrayed me and were no longer my pants.

Cassie Newell (31:30.574)
I'll tell ya. You are.

Angela Haas (31:32.962)
Because I'm just like talking long and I'm like, I'm dead. And then people are just, I can see it. They start to stare at my teeth and I'm like, something's in there. And then I just start to go, mm, yeah, that to me feels like the worst because yeah. I know. I know if you can't come on, right? Seriously. So, yeah.

Cassie Newell (31:43.726)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Cassie Newell (31:53.046)
a break in friendship code if you can't tell somebody something's in their mouth. Yeah. my god, I have a funny story to tell you really quickly. My best friend, her name is Bonnie. We were, I don't even know where we were, we were at some event together. And I'm talking like animated, full in conversation. She reaches up with her fingernails and yanks a hair out of my face.

Angela Haas (32:03.832)
Yes.

Angela Haas (32:15.982)
Well

Cassie Newell (32:24.686)
my god! She was like, it was really bothering me. I was like, well, thank you.

Angela Haas (32:32.853)
No, I think that's one hell of a friend right there. Because it was bothering her, it's bothering other people.

Cassie Newell (32:35.32)
I know. She was like, she was like, I got your back. And I was like, I had no idea. I had some rogue hair on my face.

Angela Haas (32:44.44)
Seems like she's also got your front. Seems like she had you. That's great! Shout out to Bonnie! Amazing. Amazing. What a great first episode. So, yeah.

Cassie Newell (32:46.838)
Yeah. Yeah, she had my back. It was awesome. Scared the shit out of me though.

Anyway.

Cassie Newell (33:02.44)
It is it is. So I want to thank everyone for joining us today and listening to us kick off April. Don't forget to give us a review and rating wherever you listen to the podcast. It really helps us with visibility and definitely comment and tell us what you like and what other topics might interest you, especially around craft. We've got a lot of time coming up over the year. So we would love to hear from you.

Angela Haas (33:24.529)
you

Cassie Newell (33:28.094)
Next week, we're talking with the dialogue Dr. Jeff Elkins, and it's not one you're going to want to miss because he is so fun and you get so much out of it. So I can't wait to have Jeff on the show. It's going to be a good one. All right. Well, with that, I guess we'll say farewell. Goodbye. Happy writing.

Angela Haas (33:47.266)
Bye bye.