Episode 24
· 44:23
Angela Haas (00:17)
Welcome to episode 24. I'm Angela Haas and I'm here with my co-host Cassie Newell. And this month we're exploring some hot topics because it's summer and we're hot and that's how it's going. This episode we're talking with special guests, Jonathan Ricardo and Ashley Gatti
who are audiobook narrators and they narrated my audiobooks and they're amazing and I'm not biased at all. So today we're gonna do a deep dive into what it's like to create an audiobook. And I wanted to just give Jonathan and Ashley a moment to introduce themselves. So whoever wants to go first, Ashley, you wanna just tell people a little bit about yourself?
Ashley Gatti (00:59)
Sure, my name is Ashley Gatti I live in Rhode Island. I've been narrating audiobooks for a little over two years now. And I just I think it's a lot of fun. I really enjoyed everything that I've done. I feel so lucky that I've been able to do this. So that's about it for me.
Angela Haas (01:15)
Yay. Jonathan?
Jonathan, what's a little bit about yourself?
Jonathan Ricardo (01:20)
A little bit about me. So my name is Jonathan Ricardo. am born and raised in NYC. Actually similar to Ashley. I've been narrating audiobooks for about two years, give or take. Yeah, it sounds about right, two years. I got into it. I got into voice acting before narrating. I kind of got into audiobooks accidentally and I found that I love it. I think I echo a lot of what Ashley was saying.
It's really cool working with authors. love books. I've got the three Musketeers tattooed on my arm. you know, it's
Angela Haas (01:49)
You
Jonathan Ricardo (01:51)
kind of fell in by accident and, you know, happily. yeah, I love what I do.
Angela Haas (01:56)
That's awesome. So I wonder if you take us through, the progression of how you got into it? Because I have some friends who are,
actors and specifically one who was always like on the Denver theater circuit and she had a baby and so now she's home. But I was like, you should probably be like an audiobook narrator. I think that would be perfect for you. And she's like, I have no idea how to get into it. So can you describe like how it came to you and how you started and you know, a little bit background there.
Ashley Gatti (02:30)
⁓ Well, you want to go first? Okay, yeah, I mean, like Jonathan said, I kind of fell into it by accident, too. I don't have any background in acting or performing or anything. I'm a lab scientist. ⁓ my husband actually really encouraged me to give it a try. And I'm thinking to myself, like, I don't even know how I would do that. You know, like, I thought you had to live in like, LA, New York and like work for those companies, right? But
Jonathan Ricardo (02:30)
Sure, ⁓ go ahead Ashley. I it up to you, yeah that's fine.
Angela Haas (02:33)
you
Wow.
Ashley Gatti (02:59)
I started looking into it a little bit because I do love reading and some of the people that I follow on YouTube that do book reviews, one of them actually started narrating audio books and I'm like, she's just a regular person like me. So she was going through everything she did. So I started looking up some YouTube videos and getting some advice from people that got into the industry and that's how I found ACX. So I just got some starter equipment and started doing auditions and
I got hired and I was like, wow, okay, like, I guess I can do this. So then I started upgrading and it's been a learning process for this whole two years. I've been slowly improving and learning all the editing and mastering techniques and getting a little better with my acting. Cause I started out just doing nonfiction and then I graduated to fiction and doing character voices. And so it's been a journey, but it's been so much fun.
Jonathan Ricardo (03:28)
you
Angela Haas (03:29)
Okay.
Cassie Newell (03:50)
Hmm.
That's great.
Angela Haas (03:55)
That's Wow. Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (03:56)
It's funny. mean, I wound up in it by accident, too. I am not not a theater kid. Never was. In hindsight, I wish I was because I just love doing this so much. know, by day, I'm an engineer. So, yeah, very right brained. And I I got into Dungeons and Dragons years ago. Just a fun hobby of mine. I've been a dungeon mastering for years and that
Cassie Newell (04:17)
awesome.
Jonathan Ricardo (04:23)
kind of fell off. then my wife.
gave me the advice. She's like, should, you know, look into voice acting. I think you'd enjoy it. And I took an acting class and I was like, okay, this is actually a lot of fun. Like this is what I've been doing the whole time, just not realizing it. Yeah, then, you know, audio books have a really low entry level, I think, for most voice actors or people who just want to get into doing that. You kind of just, you know, like Ashley said, you just need some equipment. You need a mic and you audition and see what happens. You can just
Cassie Newell (04:35)
Right.
Jonathan Ricardo (04:51)
that simple. And so I booked my first book and I was like, you know, like, I guess I got to produce this thing now. Okay, how do I do this? And, you know, here I am. Yeah, still enjoying it. Still learning.
Cassie Newell (04:53)
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
Angela Haas (05:03)
And how did you two connect? Cause you don't live in the same city. I thought you like lived. Okay. Yeah. So how did you two get together and say, Hey, let's do duets together. Cause that's kind of a cool.
Jonathan Ricardo (05:09)
Okay.
Angela Haas (05:17)
thing, you know.
Ashley Gatti (05:17)
Yeah, this is actually our first time meeting like we've never even spoken to each other outside of email Yeah, he He made a post on reddit in the ACX of yeah, he made a post on reddit I answered the post and we decided to do an audition. Yours was actually the first audition we did together
Jonathan Ricardo (05:21)
Yeah, I... No.
Angela Haas (05:25)
Wow! That's amazing!
Cassie Newell (05:26)
you
Jonathan Ricardo (05:28)
Yeah.
Cassie Newell (05:28)
Ashley,
Jonathan, Jonathan, Ashley.
Jonathan Ricardo (05:32)
Nice
to meet you.
Cassie Newell (05:39)
nice.
Jonathan Ricardo (05:39)
Yeah,
Angela Haas (05:40)
my
gosh.
Jonathan Ricardo (05:40)
was, you know, so like I think duets recently, I feel like on ACX, like everyone wants duets, you know, and they're just like, most of the rights holders, the authors, they come right out and they just say, must audition as duet. And all the onus is kind of on the narrator to figure that out. So we got to like find someone and just put it together and edit an audition and send it in. And hopefully we get it.
And so, yeah, I was like, OK, I really want to get into duets. And so I made a post on Reddit. There's a really active, you know, narrator community there. Ashley answered. We kind of just hit it off. And, you know, your book, Angela, was not you didn't I don't think you were explicitly like you didn't say you were looking for a duet, but I was, you know, reading it, the the, you know, the blurb and the audition. And I was like.
Angela Haas (06:08)
Mm.
No.
Jonathan Ricardo (06:24)
Okay, number one, this book sounds awesome, but number two, I feel like a duet would be awesome. And yeah, we put the audition
together and sent it your way and that was it.
Cassie Newell (06:33)
Can you explain the difference just for listeners? I know the difference, but can you explain the difference between dual versus duet?
Angela Haas (06:41)
you
Jonathan Ricardo (06:42)
So, go ahead.
Cassie Newell (06:42)
for listeners.
Ashley Gatti (06:42)
Yeah, so dual narration
is when you have, you see that a lot in romance books, when you have alternating chapters between the male and female leads. So the female chapters, the female narrator will narrate that whole chapter and do voices for the male characters and vice versa with the male doing female voices. With the duet, we splice in each other's voices for the male and female lines in our chapters.
Cassie Newell (06:48)
Mm-hmm.
Right, that's great.
Angela Haas (07:09)
Yeah.
Yeah, in my book put them through the ringer because there's so many voices. There are. Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Gatti (07:17)
So many efforts there, yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (07:20)
live for that though so yeah bring it on I loved it.
Cassie Newell (07:22)
I think the same right now. They're like, this was supposed to
be a short romance, but there's like 12 people.
Ashley Gatti (07:30)
Yeah.
Cassie Newell (07:31)
Like, do you sample different voices to remember how you're acting or portraying them? I'm sorry, Angela, I totally just... I'm curious because I know Angela's sci-fi... Like, there are a lot of people and a lot of different types of people. So those voices are pretty distinct. Like, how do you keep on top of it?
Angela Haas (07:40)
no, no, go for it.
Ashley Gatti (07:51)
Mm-hmm.
Cassie Newell (07:56)
and remember.
Jonathan Ricardo (07:58)
feel like, I mean, I'm sure everyone's got their own, you know, kind of like cheat sheets and methods and stuff. You know, for me, I, when I'm reading the book for the first time, I'm always just kind of listening to it in my head and imagining like, oh, this person should sound like this, you know? And so I'll make little notes, you know, Midwestern rough voice, something, I don't know. And then I end up just speaking in character all the time, which is really awkward if my wife just like hears me upstairs, you know?
Angela Haas (08:00)
Thank
Cassie Newell (08:03)
Yeah.
yeah.
Right.
Angela Haas (08:27)
Hehehehehe
Ashley Gatti (08:27)
Thank
Cassie Newell (08:28)
love it.
Jonathan Ricardo (08:28)
And yeah, just kind of living through the thing. yeah, and then we get into recording and I look at those notes and then I kind of try things out. And, you know, in this case, like we sent, you know, Angela a sample. We're like, what do you think? And then we kind of had some back and forth and fine tune them. And the fun part is remembering it when like, this guy was like 19 chapters ago. I don't even remember what he did. And then you got to go back and like.
Cassie Newell (08:34)
Yeah.
Nice.
Right.
Jonathan Ricardo (08:51)
You know, that's what works for me anyway.
Ashley Gatti (08:52)
Yeah, so for me like as I'm like Jonathan said like I'll read the whole book first and I'll kind of have an idea of what I want to do for each character but when I record them for the first time and then I'm listening back as I'm editing I'll take a snippet and I'll save it in a folder with the label of the character name that way when they come up 19 chapters later I can go back and listen say okay,
Angela Haas (08:54)
Okay.
Ashley Gatti (09:13)
that's what I did and then just kind of continue from there so
Cassie Newell (09:14)
Right.
Jonathan Ricardo (09:18)
That's a good idea, Ashley.
Cassie Newell (09:18)
Wow.
Ashley Gatti (09:19)
Yeah,
Angela Haas (09:21)
Now when I, don't know Cassie, if you did this with your narrators, Cassie went through a different kind of production company that I hope Cassie you'll speak on in a second, but I casted my characters and gave them like picture
Cassie Newell (09:31)
Yeah.
Angela Haas (09:37)
Chris Pratt and this person and I don't know as a narrator does is that helpful that you have like an actor to be like okay this is who she's envisioning was that helpful or does it hinder you because you can't just up with it
Cassie Newell (09:39)
Mmm.
Good question.
Ashley Gatti (09:54)
I found it really depends on the author. Like with you, I do think it was helpful because I was able to, like I think some of the examples you gave were Jessica Chastain and Angela Bassett for the female characters. So I was able to go and watch some YouTube videos and just see their cadence and kind of how they speak and try to emulate that a little bit. But I do find that sometimes
Angela Haas (10:05)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Gatti (10:16)
it's almost like they expect you to sound exactly like that actor and I can't do that. you know, if it's just kind of like, all right, this is an idea of what I'm looking for, that's cool and that is very helpful. But sometimes I think, especially if they've never done an audio book before, they've never had any of their books done in audio, they don't really know what goes into it. So they expect sometimes more than we're able to do.
Angela Haas (10:19)
Right.
Cassie Newell (10:19)
Mm.
Angela Haas (10:22)
Right. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (10:43)
Right.
Angela Haas (10:43)
That's a really good point.
Ashley Gatti (10:45)
Yeah, I've heard someone say like someone like an author was shocked that this female narrator couldn't sound like an actual adult man. And it's like, well, no, we can't.
Cassie Newell (10:45)
Wow.
Angela Haas (10:55)
⁓ Well,
Jonathan, what about you? Was it helpful to you or was it harder?
Cassie Newell (10:56)
sure.
Jonathan Ricardo (11:00)
It like Ashley said, it absolutely depends on the author. It's helpful to me because obviously like this, I mean, it's your book, it's your baby. You care a lot about these characters, obviously. So you've got a vision. You hear them a certain way, you imagine them a certain way. So that helps, think, me as an actor to take that and, you know, work with it. I think ultimately like an actor is going to we're going to make decisions. It's what we do. And
you either agree with them or you don't, but it definitely helps me. a very, I like references. does kind of give me the inspiration, you know, especially in this book, because there were so many characters that it absolutely helped. So yeah.
Cassie Newell (11:31)
Mm.
Ashley Gatti (11:38)
Yeah, definitely.
Angela Haas (11:40)
I felt guilty a little bit as I was going back through and I was like, god, there's a lot of people here. but Cassie, Cassie, did you have you?
Jonathan Ricardo (11:43)
No. Totally fine.
Angela Haas (11:49)
Did you do that? Or did you, what did you do for your
Cassie Newell (11:50)
So this is my
third time having an audiobook. So I did a nonfiction where I did it myself, but I farmed out all the production part and editing part to someone else. And then my daughter, my oldest daughter did my young adult fantasy and she was a theater kid, graduated college with a theater degree and was like, I'm interested in this. And I was like, you want to try it out on my book?
Angela Haas (12:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Ricardo (12:03)
smart.
Cassie Newell (12:16)
so she did. And that was great. And then I learned to for females and this was interesting because I had this discussion with my current narrators speaking of duet, because they are romance that I'm currently an audiobook for was the female said, I know you're interested in dual because they're short romances. And she was like, but I'm going to tell you because my chapters do go back and forth like you were talking about, Ashley.
She goes, it really hurts my vocal cords to do male for long periods of time, because you're unnaturally doing certain things. And I have a lot of different female because it's kind of like best friends in this that she has to do Southern accents for. So that that was something that was a deciding factor for me. And the other piece to that was I did go with a production company and then do my
Angela Haas (12:48)
Hmm.
Cassie Newell (13:11)
testing and auditioning that way and everything will go through ACX. But what I found interesting, and I didn't realize this at the time, I thought Duet would be more expensive as an indie author who's paying for it outright. And it is not, is what I learned. That it's really about finished hour and total rate. So...
I think that was kind of a misnomer that I kind of learned in this process for this particular because I outsourced the whole series to them. That was kind of a little bit different than what I had assumed because I just assumed more people, more money, more everything, but it's a combined rate. So that was kind of interesting to me. Yeah.
Angela Haas (13:53)
Yeah, that's great. Yeah,
I mean, I speaking to that, what are some other common misconceptions about, what an author who's never done this before and they come to you and what's something that you can say that there's a misconception about how they think this process should go or how it
Jonathan Ricardo (14:02)
you.
Ashley Gatti (14:02)
Thank
you.
Angela Haas (14:14)
how it works being a narrator.
Ashley Gatti (14:16)
I think something I've run across a few times is they don't understand how much time it takes. I've had authors send me offers and expect a nine-hour book done next week. That's not gonna happen. You know, for me, and I don't know about Jonathan, but for me it takes on average maybe six hours to complete one finished hour of audio.
Angela Haas (14:30)
Mm.
Ashley Gatti (14:39)
with all the editing and mastering and going back and correcting mistakes. every time I've said, like, whoa, I can't do that, they're like, my God, I'm so sorry. Like, I have no idea what's involved in this. How long do you need? And they've been very understanding, but it's just, I think sometimes people think we just hit record, read the book, and then we're done. And there's so much more to it than that.
Cassie Newell (14:59)
Right.
Jonathan Ricardo (15:00)
Oh, yeah, I think six hours is a good good. Like six hours per finished hour. That's a pretty good estimate. I think we, you we always try to get that like shorter and shorter and shorter, maybe get it to like ideally in a perfect world, two hours per finished hour. But it's a lot, you know, and especially in like the Indy Sphere and ACX. I think most of us narrators are. You know, we have full time jobs and families and everything like that. So to to expect a quick turnaround like that one week for a whole book is.
Cassie Newell (15:15)
Right.
Jonathan Ricardo (15:31)
You know, pretty unrealistic. I mean, I'm sure there's people that could do that, but generally not. Yeah, there's a lot of work involved.
Ashley Gatti (15:37)
Yeah, I mean, those are the
full-time career narrators that that is their only career and they spend all day doing that. Maybe they can do that in a week. most of us can't do that.
Jonathan Ricardo (15:46)
Right.
Cassie Newell (15:48)
Wow.
Jonathan Ricardo (15:48)
Especially
Angela Haas (15:48)
Okay.
Jonathan Ricardo (15:49)
starting out, think, for most narrators, it's all on you. I'm the director, producer, the editor, everything. So fortunately now, I have an editor, is huge. I can focus more on just record, and then someone takes care of that. But in starting out, you're not. So that factors into how much time it takes to turn around a book.
Cassie Newell (16:00)
Yeah.
Angela Haas (16:09)
Yeah. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (16:11)
What's your favorite genre and most challenging genre to narrate?
Jonathan Ricardo (16:18)
Hmm. I can say my favorite genre is fantasy, for sure. Go figure. But, you know, but like I mentioned, Three Musketeers is my favorite book. You know, I absolutely love that. I love the high stakes, you know, swords and sorcery and all that good stuff.
Second to that, sci-fi in the same realm. just love these beyond our world stories.
and the most challenging to narrate.
Cassie Newell (16:39)
challenging.
Jonathan Ricardo (16:41)
You know, I've done a lot of books narrating romance with a female lead and narrating most of the book as a female character, which can definitely be challenging. Yeah. You know, and they just keep coming. I'm like, okay, it's fun. Don't get me wrong. But I guess. Yeah.
Angela Haas (16:46)
Ha ha.
Ashley Gatti (16:55)
You
Cassie Newell (16:52)
Wow, I can't even imagine. Wow.
Angela Haas (16:53)
wow. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (17:01)
You got a skill set.
Angela Haas (17:05)
So if you've
done a duel, you've had to flirt with yourself. Like that might get awkward.
Ashley Gatti (17:09)
You
Jonathan Ricardo (17:11)
I've had some, I kind of have to stop and just be like, all right, hold on. Like, I hope my son never listens to this book.
Cassie Newell (17:25)
I love it. love it. Ashley,
Jonathan Ricardo (17:26)
Yeah. ⁓
Cassie Newell (17:28)
what about you? Your favorite
genre and the most challenging?
Ashley Gatti (17:31)
Well, for me, it's actually the opposite of what Jonathan said. think, yeah, most challenging for me would be fantasy and sci-fi just because there's usually so many different characters. And I'm actually, narrating a series that's a fantasy sci-fi series for another author. And throughout the series, the main character goes from being a toddler to an adult. So then I have to...
Cassie Newell (17:35)
really?
Mm.
Angela Haas (17:44)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Gatti (17:58)
age-progressed her and everyone else throughout the series that still make them sound like the same character just a little bit older. So that's really challenging but so much fun because fantasy is my favorite genre to read for fun for myself. So you know and
Angela Haas (17:58)
wow.
Cassie Newell (18:03)
My goodness.
Ashley Gatti (18:15)
your book too even though it's a little got more sci-fi elements to it like I love reading those types of books but I think I
Angela Haas (18:15)
Okay.
Ashley Gatti (18:23)
ever since I've started narrating, I've wanted to do a romance and I haven't been able to get hired for one because they all want dual. So I'm so excited to do your romance book next month. why I like as soon as I saw Jonathan's post, I'm like, yes, like this is what I've been looking for. I, because I
do think my voice lends itself well to that kind of story. Cause I do well with, you know, emotions and love and you know, I'm a little mushy.
kind of, I I must have talked. I've always had so much fun doing auditions for the romance books even though, you know, I haven't been lucky so far in that. So I'm so looking forward to doing your book next month.
Jonathan Ricardo (18:50)
Mm-hmm.
Cassie Newell (18:51)
too.
Angela Haas (18:52)
Yeah. Yay, I cannot. It's my plus one.
Cassie Newell (19:04)
Wait, which book is this?
Jonathan Ricardo (19:05)
Likewise.
Cassie Newell (19:08)
awesome.
Angela Haas (19:09)
Yeah, I decided I was gonna have them maybe do book two of the sci-fi but then the romance has just Taken off and it's been so much easier to write and I've got you know five more ideas in the pipe and I thought you know that Sci-fi series is my passion project and it will go back to it But I need to kick these things out make some money
and then go back to my passion project because the romance is outselling the first two. So it doesn't make sense to put more into those right now. I'm just going to hold on to them and then we'll go back and do the rest of that series.
Cassie Newell (19:46)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (19:50)
I
think romance is probably the most prolific genre in indie writing. So that makes a lot of sense. Likewise, I get a lot of romance work and then I do them and then it's like, okay, here's a really cool sci-fi and then romance, romance, romance, romance.
Angela Haas (20:00)
Yeah, it-
Cassie Newell (20:00)
Yeah, it has.
Angela Haas (20:06)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (20:07)
Yeah.
Well, it sells the most. mean, in the industry as a whole, per genre, romance is you've got your rabid readers. So it sells the highest market share for sure.
Angela Haas (20:09)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (20:11)
Mm-hmm.
Angela Haas (20:14)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, mine are
Jonathan Ricardo (20:18)
Mm-hmm.
Angela Haas (20:19)
more tame because if my Italian mother was going to read it, I was like, God, I can't go too graphic.
So I cannot wait. I'm so excited for the audiobook to come in.
Cassie Newell (20:35)
gonna be fun. I love that book.
I don't know if you guys have read it yet, but it's so good.
Jonathan Ricardo (20:40)
Getting into
it now. Yeah, it seems like so much fun.
Ashley Gatti (20:41)
Yeah, I've been reading and I'm about a third of the way through now. It's
Angela Haas (20:41)
You ⁓
Ashley Gatti (20:46)
really cute. like it. Looking forward to getting behind the mic. ⁓
Cassie Newell (20:48)
Yeah, it's really good.
Jonathan Ricardo (20:48)
Mm-hmm. I am excited.
Angela Haas (20:50)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (20:51)
Yep.
Cassie Newell (20:52)
That's
going to be fun. I can't wait for that audiobook.
Angela Haas (20:54)
Yes, yes. ⁓ So what do think the most surprising thing about working on a team is or what have you learned along the way about each other?
Jonathan Ricardo (20:55)
Me neither.
Cassie Newell (20:56)
That's gonna be fun.
Jonathan Ricardo (21:06)
Hmm.
Ashley Gatti (21:06)
Like I said, we don't really know each other. That's a hard question to answer.
Angela Haas (21:09)
I guess that's something.
Jonathan Ricardo (21:09)
You
Angela Haas (21:12)
So, well then take us through the process. Like if you're working on a book together and you don't, you know, do you just kind of read your parts and then Jonathan reads his and then it kind of like come together or is there?
Ashley Gatti (21:25)
That's what I was struggling with at first with this. like, should I just read his lines and then he can delete them out after or should I just? So I think for me, it's easier to stay in character if I just kind of read his lines so that I can go back and forth with myself and then, you know, so I don't make too much work for him as I'm listening back, I'll just take them out and leave like a big spot so that his editor can kind of put his lines in there.
Jonathan Ricardo (21:32)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Gatti (21:51)
So it is, I think it would be so cool to just be able to sit in a room with him and just do this back and forth. But you know, with the locations, it's just not feasible. I mean, so yeah, it is little strange, but.
Cassie Newell (21:56)
Mmm.
Jonathan Ricardo (21:58)
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean,
Cassie Newell (22:04)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (22:04)
was a, I had no idea what I was getting into, but I just knew like, all right, duets is where it's at. I really want to do one, you know, and maybe just what I typically do, I just jump in and then I'm like, okay, what do I do now? So, you know, it was a lot of learning, like, like she said, you know, she read the whole lines and I would have to pull the lines out. So the first thing I did was get an editor because I was like, this is, this is a lot. So that was a good move.
Cassie Newell (22:27)
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Ricardo (22:28)
And it's weird. Yeah, like, you know, again, we don't know each other outside of the work, really. It would be awesome to just be in a studio together and like record. think. It's like we're acting together and we get to kind of play with each other's voices, you know, and like we've we've taken lines like redone some things back and forth. I've like listened to her and then like. Kind of played it and then done my line right after just to kind of keep it natural like that, so.
Angela Haas (22:41)
.
Cassie Newell (22:40)
Right.
Jonathan Ricardo (22:54)
you do the best we can with the technology we have, but yeah, it's gotten better as we've worked together, I think, and we have a pretty nice, you know, nice
Cassie Newell (22:58)
I love that.
Jonathan Ricardo (23:03)
rapport at this point, so.
Angela Haas (23:05)
Yeah, no, I couldn't tell that you weren't. I mean, it felt like you two were in the same studio. It felt like I was there and you were both just pinging off each other when I was listening. Cassie, did your, yeah, how do your narrators do it? Are they together, recording together or no?
Ashley Gatti (23:05)
Agreed.
Jonathan Ricardo (23:16)
That's awesome. It's good to hear.
Cassie Newell (23:22)
Okay, so this
is interesting. So my narrators actually, my books are under two hour reads. Let me just preface that we're not talking full blown novels, which are anywhere from six to, you know, 22 hours long, depending on the size of the book. Yeah, but
Angela Haas (23:41)
Fantasy, yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (23:43)
Mm-hmm.
Cassie Newell (23:44)
So mine are under two hours. Well, last Friday, they decided to give it a go and I gave all the releases to do lives on TikTok. So they did work off of each other. However, what's interesting is they have their own, you know, booths, right? So they've got the recording going. But when one is recording, one is muting the other person. So they're not hearing them necessarily, or they have them in their ears, and they're not really paying attention to the lives. But what
Angela Haas (24:00)
You
Cassie Newell (24:13)
killed me was, um, because I didn't get to see it till the end, which of course, on the spicy things, they mute, which seems like an awful long mute as we're watching them talk. But what what
Ashley Gatti (24:22)
Okay.
Jonathan Ricardo (24:25)
You
Cassie Newell (24:27)
killed me was all of a sudden I see Andi who who's doing my female, she just starts laughing her ass off. Of course, Ryan isn't looking at her. He's doing his lines. And I'm thinking
Ashley Gatti (24:39)
You
Cassie Newell (24:41)
my gosh, the bloopers have got
to be awesome for narrators. if you mispronounce, especially in fantasy, because we make up as a writer, we make up words all the time for different dialects or whatever. But I just was like cracking up at watching them because she it wasn't anything funny that he said it was just how he said it. And she got the giggles and couldn't stop. And I just was like, this is funny.
Jonathan Ricardo (24:44)
you
Angela Haas (24:50)
⁓
Ashley Gatti (24:52)
You
Ha ha ha ha!
Cassie Newell (25:08)
But it was really interesting to watch them do it and they're gonna do it again this coming Friday, I think. So it's like a different opportunity, of course. I mean, not the norm whatsoever. But it's been, it's kind of fun for the writer to see it and some people who said, hey, let me check out a free audio book while I got TikTok rolling for a little while. And it was a lot of fun. But I know my daughter,
Jonathan Ricardo (25:20)
That sounds like lot of fun though.
Angela Haas (25:25)
Yeah.
Cassie Newell (25:37)
And when I did my own nonfiction book, you know, some of those words and there's tempo to how you say things and then I tend to talk fast. So that's not very good as a narrator either. But I don't know, I'm very impressed with anyone who has interest in narration, because it just confounds me all the different voices, the tone, the tenor.
all of it. I just find it really amazing because for me, it's like a really good book is a movie in your head. A really good audio book is a movie in your head and HD. You know what I mean? So I just I love audio books. They're so fun for me to listen to.
Jonathan Ricardo (26:14)
Hmm.
Angela Haas (26:14)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. It was really
Ashley Gatti (26:15)
Hmm
Jonathan Ricardo (26:20)
Yep.
Angela Haas (26:21)
bizarre for me to hear it the first time, though. I was like, is that? That's my book. I'm like, oh. And then I'm like...
Cassie Newell (26:27)
I know, you're like, those are my
Ashley Gatti (26:27)
Yeah.
Cassie Newell (26:29)
words?
Angela Haas (26:30)
it was just
like, I started listening and then I was like, I turned it off and I was like, this is so weird. But then not because of anything you all were doing, but just because it was like hearing what I wrote versus just reading it. And then of course I was like, I shouldn't have put that in there, you know, but I get too critical. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (26:43)
Right.
Jonathan Ricardo (26:50)
Mmm, I think we're always our own worst critic, you know, I
Cassie Newell (26:50)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (26:54)
think that's pretty natural
Cassie Newell (26:54)
Right.
Ashley Gatti (26:54)
I
think we feel that way about hearing our own voices too, at least at first. Like I know when I first like heard my first few books and I'm like, my God, like it's weird hearing yourself. And even now still sometimes I'm like, my God, am I doing, is that me? It is. Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (26:59)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cassie Newell (27:13)
wow. Really?
Jonathan Ricardo (27:15)
Yeah,
I think it's pretty cool. Like, yeah, the first time I the other day, I went and listened to the first audition I ever booked. And I'm just like, Oh, my God, like, you know, why was that? Okay, this is terrible. And here I am on my book, you know, four with the same author and stuff. But like, what's really cool to me is, is sometimes I'll just be listening like I was listening to First Strike the other day. Just had it on while I was like driving. And then I just kind of get home and I'm like,
Cassie Newell (27:15)
⁓ wow.
⁓ no!
Jonathan Ricardo (27:44)
I just realized like I just drove home. didn't even like, I wasn't listening to myself anymore. I was just listening to the story, you know? I was able to lose myself in the thing I narrated. So I was like, that's pretty cool. Okay. Like, you know, that means I think I did something right. I think we did something cool there. So, you know, that was a good feeling.
Cassie Newell (27:56)
That is very cool.
Angela Haas (27:57)
Yeah.
absolutely. Yeah,
no, absolutely. And I, I'm still in awe of how you managed all the different voices. But I wondered if you could speak to this because I had a friend who he put like he stopped listening in the middle of these fantasy books because the names were so like when we're writing as authors, we get a little creative with naming things.
Ashley Gatti (28:07)
you
Angela Haas (28:27)
But he said because the names were so, hard to pronounce on paper. But then in the narration, it was like, wait, what was that? And so is that something that authors should think about or does that trip you up sometimes ever? where you're like, oh, this name is really tough, especially in like fantasy sci-fi genres.
Jonathan Ricardo (28:36)
Hmm.
Angela Haas (28:50)
Cause I had basic names. Mine were like Bob Smith. And I was like, that's a sci-fi name, whatever. It sounds weird to someone, you know? But like when we get to creative naming things, does that factor in when you're narrating?
Jonathan Ricardo (28:53)
You
Ashley Gatti (29:06)
I The books that I've narrated that are fantasy are kind of like yours where the names aren't too crazy Like there's no apostrophes and hyphens and weird combinations
Angela Haas (29:14)
Okay,
yeah.
Ashley Gatti (29:15)
But I do think it would make me pause if there were a lot of those in an audition script. I mean, I guess as long as you have a pronunciation guide, you can just kind of get used to saying it and practice it, because you always do a practice run before you start recording anyway. So I think by the time you get through that, you'd be used to it. But I know for me anyway, I have a hard time listening to like...
Angela Haas (29:30)
Yeah.
Ashley Gatti (29:39)
epic fantasies in audiobooks. Like I have to go back and forth between an audio and a print book just because there's so much going on. And you know I just I think I learn better by seeing. So I like to have both in that sense like as a listener. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (29:44)
Mm.
Angela Haas (29:54)
that's interesting.
Cassie Newell (29:54)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (29:57)
Yeah, I
Angela Haas (29:57)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (29:58)
actually tried that recently, like reading a book as I was listening to it. It's a whole other experience and actually pretty cool, but it does help for like, I think a fantasy really in depth kind of crazy characters. Does it, know, turn like, but to what you said, Angela, I think it it probably is a good idea for an author to be aware of that. If they're planning on making this an audio book, I never thought about it, but you saying it kind of makes sense to me that like
Yeah, I mean, if someone's gonna listen to this, you know, maybe you should keep that in mind, tweak the names a little bit.
Cassie Newell (30:28)
Yeah.
Angela Haas (30:29)
Yeah.
Yeah, they were really strange. Like, you know, three A's and an apostrophe, you know, X or something. And the listener was like,
Ashley Gatti (30:31)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (30:35)
Mm-hmm.
Cassie Newell (30:38)
Is that a sound?
Angela Haas (30:40)
Yeah, it sounded, yeah, it just was like, but
then over and over again, your mind starts to focus only on that. And then he kept missing the rest, you know, because it was like, gosh, these names and they're all like that, you know, so.
Cassie Newell (30:56)
So maybe that's
also the topic of some books aren't suited for audiobooks, you know, in that way, maybe, I don't know. I kind of, you know, I look at some of the things I've read and enjoyed, and I would think, this would be such a great audiobook or, you know, other things. like, there's no way I could listen to that in an audiobook
Ashley Gatti (31:17)
I think in that case it might even help to have like an actual full cast of actors doing the book so that way it's easier to keep track based on you know an actual different person narrating rather than someone just changing their voice because I mean when you have a cast that big too I mean the human voice can only do so much so things are going to start to sound a little similar when you're trying to voice I mean some of these theories have like hundreds of characters in them so that's that's that's a tall order.
Jonathan Ricardo (31:26)
Hmm.
Cassie Newell (31:27)
Who's doing what?
Angela Haas (31:28)
Okay.
Cassie Newell (31:37)
Right.
That's a lot.
Ashley Gatti (31:47)
So.
Jonathan Ricardo (31:47)
What
I've also seen, experienced recently is some producers will go the route of maybe like, you know, eliminating some parts of the text, which is like, you know, cylindrual, whatever said, it's like, okay, it's a different actor. So, you know, it's that character and just kind of let it play out more like an audio drama and less like the entire script being read. And that maybe keeps the immersion intact for the listener, you know, that's one way to.
Cassie Newell (32:04)
Mm.
Gotcha. That's a good point. I like that.
Ashley Gatti (32:14)
Mmm.
Jonathan Ricardo (32:16)
possibly go about it.
Cassie Newell (32:17)
Interesting. I'm curious, what's your dream project? A book or an author that you would love to work with? Do you have those? Do you guys have dream projects like that?
Angela Haas (32:17)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (32:29)
Sure. Well, for me, mean, I could, I would love to narrate the Three Musketeers.
Cassie Newell (32:30)
All right, do you want to spell?
Ashley Gatti (32:32)
Hahaha
Angela Haas (32:32)
So wet.
Jonathan Ricardo (32:38)
I'm like afraid of doing it. Like I would want to do it justice and it's like a pipe dream of mine, but that would be awesome. Yeah. ⁓
Angela Haas (32:44)
you
I think right.
Ashley Gatti (32:48)
I mean, are we talking books that don't have a narrator already?
Cassie Newell (32:53)
Just your dream
Angela Haas (32:53)
Yeah, like,
Cassie Newell (32:54)
book, your dream project. They may, they may not, I don't know.
Angela Haas (32:54)
yeah.
Ashley Gatti (32:57)
mean, I
don't know. Like I said, I really want to narrate romances, but like, you know, my favorite series are like A Song of Ice and Fire, Harry Potter. Those have famous narrators doing those already. I'm never going to do it, but I know when I was practicing, I would pick up my Harry Potter books and just like read a chapter, narrate it. you know, so like, you know, I would love to do something along those lines, but obviously.
Cassie Newell (33:07)
⁓
Angela Haas (33:07)
Mm-hmm.
Cassie Newell (33:18)
I love that.
Ashley Gatti (33:25)
That's not going to happen, but you know, stuff like that.
Angela Haas (33:28)
Yeah. yeah. ⁓
Jonathan Ricardo (33:29)
I was thinking about narrating a Beowulf because it's like free domain and whatever and then I picked it up I'm like nope.
Ashley Gatti (33:35)
You
Angela Haas (33:39)
That
would be a challenging one. There is a trend though. We were at the 20 books to 50k I'm going to ask you a different question too. But there's production companies that are making it more like a radio show, where they have sound effects and you know, a soundtrack and like
Cassie Newell (33:42)
would be.
Jonathan Ricardo (33:43)
a little bit, yeah.
Angela Haas (34:04)
I also pulled some audiobook listeners and they're like, we don't like this at all because it's too distracting and all the sound effects we're trying to keep up with. have you seen things go that way or is it still just straight narrating that seems to be what people are liking?
Ashley Gatti (34:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, straighten it. What I know personally, if I heard a bunch of sound effects in an audiobook, I probably would turn it off. And every discussion that I've seen on this, because like some newer narrators will ask like, this author wants me to add sound effects and everybody discourages it. They're like, really listeners don't like it. And I agree, it is distracting. Like I, like you said, I make a movie in my head and I don't need help.
Angela Haas (34:39)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Gatti (34:48)
with that per se. So yeah, I think it's too much. I think that should be its own separate thing if like, if you want to listen to a full audio drama like that, I'm sure there's a place for it, but.
Angela Haas (34:50)
Right. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (35:01)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (35:01)
Yeah, exactly that. think it's like you got to look at it as two separate things. Most audiobook fans, they want an audiobook. They love the theater of the mind and that's what you got to deliver.
Angela Haas (35:01)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (35:12)
Yeah, adding sound effects and music, that's cool, but it really is its own thing and it has an audience. There's production companies that only produce those types of audiobooks, but they are its own thing.
Angela Haas (35:24)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (35:25)
You know, if that's what the producer, that's what the author wants, then okay. Like I personally would say like, okay, let's do it. But it depends on the direction they want to go, you know.
Cassie Newell (35:30)
Yeah.
Right.
Angela Haas (35:36)
Would you ever go off on your own? not through ACX where people can you just kind of make your own company I just wondered what, what your future plans are for like growing what you're doing.
Jonathan Ricardo (35:47)
Me personally, I actually recently started a company, very, it's like in its infancy, you know, Blue Jay Audio Works. it's my, the vision I have for it is pretty much like you said, I would, you know, my job's to bring your vision to life. Do you want a cast? Do you want music, sounds, whatever, you know, that's my job to do. And would be separate from ACX, what have you.
Angela Haas (35:53)
Thank
Jonathan Ricardo (36:11)
That's my end goal, just to be able to produce dramas, audiobooks. That's where I'm going with this. But primarily, ACX is just a very nice and easy way to just... Authors can connect with us directly and book us, so probably the best way to book us.
Angela Haas (36:28)
That's
Cassie Newell (36:28)
Nice.
Angela Haas (36:28)
great.
Ashley Gatti (36:30)
Yeah, I mean for me, it would be awesome to be able to do this full time, but realistically I know that we can't afford for me to quit my day job.
I mean this, I, like I said, I just feel so lucky that I'm able to do this at all. So I'm going to keep doing it as a part-time gig and a hobby and you know, for as long as I'm able to, you know, and yeah.
I just, like I said, I don't know, maybe if I had learned about this 20, 25 years ago and went to school for it and actually had a background in it, it'd be more feasible. But to start at 40 years old and say, I'm gonna quit my job now and do this whole time, maybe I just don't have the courage to do something like that. ⁓
Angela Haas (37:01)
Yeah.
Cassie Newell (37:05)
night.
Angela Haas (37:14)
Yeah.
Cassie Newell (37:15)
we understand we both have our day jobs too. Like writers aren't usually full time, you know, either I think the majority of us aren't right. So totally get it.
Angela Haas (37:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Gatti (37:27)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (37:28)
I
was producing my first audio book when my wife was pregnant with our son. So I was just like, oh God, okay, I got nine months, hopefully. Go, go, go, go, go. And then after that, I'm lucky enough to still be doing it. I decided to not sleep. I'm not sleeping anyway. know. Yep. So yeah, we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't love it.
Cassie Newell (37:37)
Hahaha
Angela Haas (37:38)
⁓ You
Ashley Gatti (37:38)
That's it.
Angela Haas (37:46)
Right, of course. Yeah. Yeah.
Cassie Newell (37:47)
There you go. Let it work for you.
Ashley Gatti (37:48)
Ha ha ha.
Angela Haas (37:50)
I just picture you
two at your day jobs, like slipping into other voices. And I think that makes me laugh. Does that ever happen where you're just like...
Jonathan Ricardo (38:00)
Yeah.
Ashley Gatti (38:02)
I have done
it at my desk because like if I have a slow day like I'll pull up a script for a book I'm prepping for and I'll just start like not loudly but like you know kind of like under my breath like reading it and doing different voices and I'm looking around I'm like slipping into a southern accent all of a sudden.
Jonathan Ricardo (38:07)
Mm.
Angela Haas (38:14)
⁓ You
Cassie Newell (38:19)
That's the best.
Jonathan Ricardo (38:19)
My,
yeah, that and like for me, everyone loves that I could do impressions of like everyone we work with, you know, they're like, how are you so good at that? Like, my my boss is this, you know, yeah, my boss is this big, you know, just like scary dude. And I could just walk around and be like, yeah, the other day he was like, John, need you to go and then people to start like laughing. And it's like, yeah, that's it's like a party trick. They do. I channel everyone.
Angela Haas (38:30)
my gosh. Yes.
Cassie Newell (38:31)
awesome.
And now I'll be going, what?
Angela Haas (38:43)
Yeah, yep.
Cassie Newell (38:44)
and then they become characters in
Ashley Gatti (38:47)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (38:47)
Everyone if
I've met you you're somewhere in a book
Angela Haas (38:50)
That's amazing. That's amazing.
Ashley Gatti (38:50)
you
Angela Haas (38:52)
Although I have to laugh because I one of my characters I was like picture Ron Swanson and I loved the first take of it, but I was like, just dial it back a skoch because he really went full Ron Swanson. Like I was like, wow, you really could do that. But I was like, maybe just
Jonathan Ricardo (39:06)
You
Cassie Newell (39:09)
You
Jonathan Ricardo (39:10)
Yeah.
Angela Haas (39:13)
Ron Swanson's cousin, just a little, you know.
Cassie Newell (39:16)
love it.
Jonathan Ricardo (39:15)
You
Ashley Gatti (39:16)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (39:17)
think
some of the best advice I've gotten from my acting coach was just go, it's always easier to dial it back than it is to pick it up. Just go huge. So yeah, Ron Swanson times a million and then I could make it like Ron Swanson.
Cassie Newell (39:24)
Mmm.
Angela Haas (39:26)
Right. Yeah.
Yeah, the jam was perfect.
Cassie Newell (39:34)
Great.
Angela Haas (39:34)
Well, this has been so much fun and I think really helpful for unless there's any last thing for authors, you know, who have never done this before is there just another tip that they can use to be that would be helpful for them that you can think of if, you know, just something you wish people would know.
Jonathan Ricardo (39:55)
Hmm. For me personally, just the day and age we're at, hire humans, hire human narrators. You know, it's what we do is, is, you know, it's there's there is a clear difference. You know, we are breathing life into these stories and we absolutely love to do it. And we love to work with authors who put in the time to write these stories. You know, this is
Ashley Gatti (39:56)
Hmm.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Angela Haas (40:05)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.
Jonathan Ricardo (40:22)
Art should stay with humans. It's, yeah, hire humans. That's what I would say.
Ashley Gatti (40:27)
Yeah, agreed.
Angela Haas (40:30)
Okay, cool. Well, it's that time for our... gosh, I picked accidentally two and now I can't decide. Okay, that one's gross. Okay, we're not gonna... That one was like, if you could sleep with one of your teachers, I don't think so.
Jonathan Ricardo (40:44)
You
Cassie Newell (40:47)
No, I did promise this
wasn't light cards
Jonathan Ricardo (40:49)
high school or college.
Angela Haas (40:50)
where did that come from? This is supposed to be okay. How about this one? What habit would you like to break?
Ashley Gatti (40:57)
Like as far as narration goes or just in general.
Angela Haas (41:00)
Just
in general, this is a general you habit that you have that you'd love to stop doing.
Ashley Gatti (41:06)
And I tend to fixate on things. So like when I start liking something, I can't stop doing it even if it's not good for me. Like I smoked cigarettes for 20 years. I quit that, started vaping. I'd like to stop doing that eventually. That'd be good. Maybe stop drinking more water instead of diet coke.
Angela Haas (41:22)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I crack my knuckles and I think it's a nervous like tick almost, but I wish I could, you know, sometimes I'm just my husband will watch a movie and he just looks over like, do you mind something bubble wrap over there? And I'm like, I'm sorry. I just like, if I start thinking, I just start like cracking my knuckles and it's just such a, it feels like it.
Cassie Newell (41:29)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (41:31)
Hmm.
Angela Haas (41:58)
helps, but it doesn't. That's my one habit I wish I could stop. Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (42:03)
Hmm.
Angela Haas (42:04)
Yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (42:06)
I mean, I do a lot of things that annoy my wife. I'm trying to think of like, you know, I had
to pick one of them. I don't know. I got a bad habit of like hyper-fixating on things, like Ashley said, but like, I don't know, just taking something and then like having to like just be the best at it. Not that I'm the best at anything, but like, I'm just like, you know, okay. Like I started swimming.
Angela Haas (42:25)
You have lots of competition, yeah.
Jonathan Ricardo (42:28)
And I'm like, okay, I need like Speedos and I need like the right goggles and you know, the, and all this stuff in like, you know, it's like just, just swim, stop. Like enjoy something, you know? Yeah.
Ashley Gatti (42:31)
Hahaha!
Cassie Newell (42:33)
All the things. I love it.
Angela Haas (42:38)
Yeah, yeah, just enjoy. I get that. Yeah. Right.
Cassie Newell (42:43)
think of anything. I do know that my daughter gets irritated when so there is something I do, but I don't necessarily want to break it. But I am a gum smacker when I'm editing and I chew gum when I edit because it keeps me in tempo and it doesn't allow me to stay too long on things so I can go quickly and efficiently. So I tend to do that. But if I know people are around me, I will not smack my gum.
Angela Haas (42:54)
⁓
Ashley Gatti (43:06)
Okay.
Cassie Newell (43:10)
So I guess I broke that habit. So I don't know, I'm just, and I'm not a huge gum chewer. It's just on certain occasions. So I don't know. I don't have any really
fabulous habits I can think of that I want to break at the moment. I'm like, I like my habits.
Angela Haas (43:25)
Okay.
Jonathan Ricardo (43:29)
Good for you. Yeah.
Angela Haas (43:29)
gosh, Cassie.
Ashley Gatti (43:31)
I mean, I guess
I kind of like my habits too. Who am I kidding? ⁓
Angela Haas (43:34)
Yeah,
Jonathan Ricardo (43:35)
Yeah. ⁓
Angela Haas (43:36)
yeah,
exactly. Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us today. And listeners, don't forget to give us a review rating wherever you listen to the podcast. really helps us with visibility. Next week, we're going to discuss what it takes to run a podcast since it's going to be our 25th episode. Woo. Yeah, let's clap for that. Everyone.
Cassie Newell (43:37)
You know, own them.
Jonathan Ricardo (43:39)
I him.
Ooh.
Congratulations. That's
awesome.
Angela Haas (44:02)
Until next time, keep writing, keep doing, and we'll see ya. Bye.
Jonathan Ricardo (44:07)
Ciao ciao.
Ashley Gatti (44:08)
Thanks.
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