Episode 27: July Kickoff with Our Favorite Characters

Cassie Newell (00:17)
Welcome to episode 27. I'm Cassie Newell and I'm here with my co-host Angela Haas. And this month we're doing character studies where we are looking at what it takes to create a character that readers will love. For this first episode, we're talking about our favorites and

not so favorite characters and what makes it so. So Angela, like I have to kick it off to you. What's your favorite character of all time? Do you have like an all time one or is it a multitude of different characters?

Angela Haas (00:48)
It's a melange of just so many people. Yeah, I don't have like a favorite. But I think, you know,

Cassie Newell (00:52)
Right?

Angela Haas (00:57)
Tom Hiddleston as Loki was an eternal. Fun fact, I met friends starting a Tom Hiddleston fan page on Pinterest. This was like in the early days of Pinterest before ads and things like that. And a bunch of us just, it was right as Avengers came out. We just really didn't know who he was. And then he was just like exploding into all this fanfic. And I was like, hmm.

Cassie Newell (01:10)
Really?

Right.

Angela Haas (01:23)
I created a board called All Things Great and Hiddleston and then I had like 5,000 followers, because of this board. Yes, it's still there if everyone wants to go check it out. the fun thing is we got in contact with, somehow he was running this contact test, Hiddleston Smiles, and you could take,

Cassie Newell (01:31)
Does the board still exist today? Awesome.

Angela Haas (01:48)
pictures fans could take pictures and they're gonna pick the best ones and put it on like one of those skylight digital photo frames on his desk as a gift from all his fans and our picture made it in. I don't know if he still has that but it's like my two seconds of fame but I think there was something about him playing the villain because he has this charming English thing going on.

Cassie Newell (01:58)
fine.

that's awesome.

Angela Haas (02:16)
sort of not a boyishly handsome face, and yet he's this really strategic villain. And so for me, Tom Hiddleston is Loki forever. So yeah.

Cassie Newell (02:27)
my gosh, can I tell you similar is I don't

know if you ever watched you on Netflix, but Joe Goldberg, very similar because you're rooting for him. He's horrible. He's a horrible person. He is the villain and he's framed to be the romantic every time. Right. So and then, yeah, but he's well, a good looking and B.

Angela Haas (02:34)
yeah, mm-hmm.

Horrible.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (02:56)
just his narrative is unreliable. I think that's why I like Loki to his rationale is so unreliable, but reasonable to him. So you get it. Same thing with Joe Goldberg. Like, that's those are some of my like, absolute favorite villains. Yeah.

Angela Haas (03:03)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

I think there's part of us that the villain sometimes is more interesting, you know, because the hero, like whatever, you're virtuous and good. And I think there's this curiosity about what made you, like who hurt you, villain? Why did you, what happened that you're like this?

Cassie Newell (03:21)
Yeah. yeah.

Yeah, who hurt you? And sometimes it's not

even hurt because when you look at Loki, for example, like sure, he was taken from his homeland, but he was also raised as a freaking prince by people who loved him. He's just mischievous. You know what I mean? Like sometimes it's just they're in their personality traits, too. And I think that's what makes us love characters is

Angela Haas (03:47)
Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Cassie Newell (04:01)
because I know we'll talk about it later, but they really need to be three dimensional, right? They have to have all these sides. We're neither all good or all bad. Usually we're somewhere in between. There's some type of redeeming quality and, you know, like all those things. I mean, sometimes I'm a real butt head, you know, like we're not perfect. Nobody is. Right? You have your moments where you just fed up and

Angela Haas (04:07)
⁓ Same. Yeah, no, no, there's some, yeah.

Cassie Newell (04:30)
you know, you want things to go your way and it doesn't always work out that way. But like, I don't know Loki is he and Tom Hiddleston plays him so well. And he has such this I love it when he smirks. lay me down. Like, sure, you want to burn the world? Okay.

Angela Haas (04:39)
It's perfect. Oh, that's it. Hello.

Like, fine, here's

a match and I'm helping, you know, absolutely. So, yes. One of my favorite female characters from the book written by Matthew Quirk was Rose Larkin and she's from The Night Agent. I won't do spoilers.

Cassie Newell (04:53)
Right,

I love

⁓

Angela Haas (05:09)
I'm going to try to like not do spoilers. And if there is a spoiler, we'll say spoiler. But I'm not, I think I'm pronouncing her name right. Lucianne Buchanan plays her in Night Agent season one. And this shows the difference with something based on a book.

Cassie Newell (05:12)
Okay.

I'll try.

Yeah, because I never read them, but I did watch them.

Angela Haas (05:31)
And Night Agent 2 is not based on the book. It's just the producers, writers carrying the season through. Completely different And I was like, okay, this is what happens when there isn't a book as an inspiration. But Night Agent Season 1, Rose Larkin, is the perfect female character for me because one of the things that's

Cassie Newell (05:45)
interesting.

Angela Haas (05:55)
bothering me in what I'm seeing a lot in TV film, but also in literature is this impervious female. This, I'm a woman, I'm a badass from the beginning, no one knows why, I'm just, I know how to karate kick and I don't need any help from anyone and I don't need men and I'm just an impervious superhero from day one. I hate it. Because I think

that's nothing we should aspire as women to be because I think there's already sometimes so much pressure on us anyway. I want to see a woman who's vulnerable and scared and has a breakdown because I'm like, see, that's still strength. Yeah.

Cassie Newell (06:31)
Mm-hmm.

and still can kick butt at the same time

when she needs to. Yeah.

Angela Haas (06:38)
That's exactly.

And I think we've gotten away from like asking for help is actually a very big sign of strength. And yet I'm seeing these women like, I don't need help. I don't need anything. I'll talk about one of the most hated female characters in my history that I just turned off these shows and then just like shook my fist at this sky But let's talk about Rose Larkin. The thing that makes her so great is

Cassie Newell (06:48)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (07:06)
In the beginning, we see her still solving problems, but she's scared. She's in a closet crying for reasons that are totally identifiable. They're valid. But we see the progression as she starts to say, I've had enough of being hunted and I'm going to start to turn the tables on these fools. I love that. I love seeing the progression.

because that to me is more identifiable. And it made perfect sense that she was scared and crying and asking for help because she was in a situation that none of us, no matter how, unless you are a superhero, couldn't get out of. But by the end, she's a total badass. And I was like, I love this character. Now in season two, they totally nerfed her character because they made her whiny, bitchy. She just...

Cassie Newell (07:52)
Right.

Angela Haas (08:03)
And it's not the actress. I think she did the best she could with what her dialogue was, but she was just, turned her into this like nag and she wasn't sure of herself and we don't know why. And I'm just like, what happened to this character? I couldn't even make it through season two. also these are my opinions. No, I couldn't because I'm like.

Cassie Newell (08:21)
You couldn't make it through? I liked how it

ended though.

Angela Haas (08:26)
Maybe I need to give it a chance. The middle part of it was like, my gosh, seriously? Now she's upset about this. I'm like, no. So we just, we went to Reac her. Okay. Maybe. Yeah, I did it.

Cassie Newell (08:27)
⁓ no, you missed it.

But she makes some big decisions at the end. So I don't know, you might like the end, you may have to suffer. Because sometimes

they do that in shows, right? Like they have this mucky middle. And if you don't stick with it, sometimes the payoff isn't great. But then sometimes it is great. And you're like, so I don't know. I don't know if it'll work for you or not. But I liked it.

Angela Haas (08:53)
Mm-hmm.

All right, maybe we'll have to,

I mean, I couldn't take my eyes off season one. We couldn't stop watching it. It was like so bingey. would be, yeah, Matthew Quirk writes a lot of these amazing books. so if you, you'd have to like that kind of political suspense, ⁓ but he's a very talented author. So yes, maybe I'll give it a try, but.

Cassie Newell (09:03)
Yeah, it was great. And I had no idea it was after a book. I didn't know.

Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (09:23)
That, mean, kind of, yeah, I kind of already touched on what bothers me about female characters, but the other ones that I didn't like are Mckayla Stone from Manifest. I don't know if you've ever heard of that show, Manifest. It's actually a brilliant concept where there's like flight 2187 and it disappears, but it's

Cassie Newell (09:24)
So that's the female, huh?

yeah, I think I watched one or two episodes

and I couldn't get into it.

Angela Haas (09:52)
Yeah, it's

gone for five years. And I think that's kind of the hard thing, the length of time it was gone. And to the people on the plane, they were gone for like an hour and they finally land and they're looking for their family. But five years have passed and no one knows why. That's like a long time. People move on in five years, you know, even if you've searched and searched us five years, I could see if it was one year.

Cassie Newell (10:00)
Yeah.

Right.

Angela Haas (10:21)
things might still, you know, people could get back into their families. But anyway, the main character, Michaela, she comes back, her best friend, and spoiler, turn this off or mute this if you don't want to hear this, if you're watching the show. Her best friend and her fiance, who thought she was dead, actually get together through their grief and they're engaged. Okay.

But you've been gone for five years. I don't know if you can be too upset with these people. I mean, maybe that sucks. But Michaela's character decides, I want my fiance. I'm going to do whatever I can to bust up this relationship. Because they were living together. They were getting married. She busts up the relationship, sends her best friend packing, and then her fiance is like, great, we can start our life again. And she's like, you know what? I mean, they sleep together.

And then the next morning she's like, you know what? I really need to find myself. I'm really not interested in that relationship actually at this time. And I was like, are you kidding me? Like after all that, like pushing and pulling and like, and he's there doing, you know, he gets rid of the best friend and says, I'm ready to like start our life again. And I love you. And she's like, you know what? I actually want to be on my own. It's like, no.

Cassie Newell (11:23)
after all of that.

It was torture for him.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (11:43)
I don't think so. That's not strength, you know? And then the same with this isn't a very good movie. So it's not a good example, but Emily Blunt's character in Jungle Cruise, that's a Disney one made after the ride, could have been fun. But another one, she knows like kung fu from the first scene. She constantly ignores, like the men are saying, don't do this on the boat because we're going to then have a problem on the boat.

Cassie Newell (11:45)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (12:10)
What does she do? She does the thing. Because she's the woman and she's not gonna be told what to do. I'm like, okay, if you're sinking the boat, then maybe we should probably listen to the captain. And then she falls in, she's almost drowning in the water because she can't swim. The Rock the hunky Rock rescues her, pulls her back on the boat and she slaps him because she didn't really wanna be rescued. She can do it. And I'm like, okay, again, not strength.

Cassie Newell (12:11)
huh. She does it,

Maybe you should listen.

Angela Haas (12:38)
You know, because I'm an assertive woman, I'm a strong woman, but sometimes I am tired of making all the decisions. So I am not going to argue if I'm in the middle of a burning building in this hunky, like hot man swings in on a chandelier and takes me to safety, I'm to make, thank you, I'm not going to be mad that like I couldn't get out of it myself. It's okay.

Cassie Newell (12:39)
Yeah, no, I don't love that.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (13:06)
to have a partner, right? It's okay to present a strong female character, but still to have some of that weight taken off by a partner,

Yeah.

Cassie Newell (13:15)
So let's talk about

strong characters. So I have a really strong one that I adore. I don't know if you've ever watched Ted Lasso. Have you ever watched Ted Lasso? Okay. So the fabulous Hannah Waddington plays Rebecca Welton, who is the owner of the club. And the reason I loved her from the get-go was in her character arc.

Angela Haas (13:23)
Yes, yes.

love her. I'd love her.

Cassie Newell (13:38)
through the seasons is amazing. I will try not to be spoilery. But how it starts is that it's all about revenge, right? From her divorce, from her ex husband who loved this team. It is now hers from the divorce and she is going to run it into the ground, right? And just watch

Angela Haas (13:59)
Right

Cassie Newell (14:00)
it suffer. But what's interesting is

you watch this woman who is a very strong, powerful woman change over time as she gets to know the team she has and becomes a mother caretaker and the owner, you know, the leader and who is now changing from revenge to I want to win it all, you know, kind of thing. And

Angela Haas (14:09)
Okay.

Cassie Newell (14:29)
I loved it because there are times where, you know, she is in tears and in shambles and another character is pulling her up. And then there are other times that she's pulling other characters up, you know, whether they're having a panic attack, whether they're trying to find their own way. And I don't know, I just, she is the epitome of empowerment to me. I just love it.

Angela Haas (14:44)
Yes.

Cassie Newell (14:56)
And I love that her friends call her BS

out on her directly. And then I love how one of my favorite characters on there is Roy Kent. Like I just adore Roy Kent. And I just love when their relationship just as player and leader owner evolves over time.

Angela Haas (15:05)
Yeah, yes, yeah.

Cassie Newell (15:17)
you know, where she's asking his opinion, but she's pushing him to be better and taking the lead on some of the press junkets and things where he's just like not wanting to do it. And she calls him out. And I love that because she's pushing his character arc, too. I just she is the epitome of just a fabulous. I love that they never gave her a romantic interest that

Angela Haas (15:34)
Mm-hmm

Cassie Newell (15:43)
was one of the coaches, because they could have easily done that. They could have easily taken that line. And I love that they never did it. I loved it. It was professional. was just, I don't know. She's like the perfect one, in my opinion. Yeah. Now, you're so hopefully I won't get in trouble. But on the converse side of that.

Angela Haas (15:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I love her character and I love that actress. Like she's just, she's such a presence.

Cassie Newell (16:10)
Did you ever read Gone Girl or seen the movie Gone Girl? Can't stand the main character and done for the reason that it is a psychological suspense as to why she's doing everything she's doing, right? But it's so two dimensional that it kills me.

Angela Haas (16:13)
I have seen the movie Grand Girl, yep.

Right.

Cassie Newell (16:33)
It kills me every time. Like it stirs reactions because her reactions are so severe and you understand her motivation, but it's just so two dimensional. I know psychopaths don't have a lot of empathy, but it's really hard not to see any empathy from a female who supposedly wanted children who supposedly like was nurturing ahead of time.

for it to all been gone. Like I just had a really hard time with that character the whole time.

Angela Haas (17:02)
Yeah.

What do you think would have made her character more three-dimensional?

Cassie Newell (17:08)
That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that because I didn't write the background for her, but I wouldn't have had her be empathetic or even loving to begin with.

it was

snapped because she thought her husband cheated on her. What? Like, no, it doesn't quite work like that. For most people. Now I understand there's some psychosis there, but I think if you would have put her psychosis way up front and had Easter eggs of that, I would have bought into it. And the actress is brilliant. I love that actress. Love her in Wheel of Time. Like, yes, okay. But I just, I didn't like the character.

Angela Haas (17:21)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

All

Cassie Newell (17:45)
I couldn't get into it. And then I was trying to get into the sub characters. It just didn't work for me. It was just one that didn't work for me.

Angela Haas (17:46)
Yeah. Yeah.

I just don't like Ben Affleck and sorry for those who might, but I just because it was him, I also couldn't like feel sorry for him. Like

You almost don't feel sorry for anyone in there except for like the side characters who have to deal with these people. Yeah, but once you get killed, yeah, him, but yeah, especially him, but just, yeah.

Cassie Newell (18:03)
Yeah.

the ones who get killed, like Neil Patrick Harris.

Yeah. Yeah, I just I don't

know. It wasn't good for me. And that's the reason. But I wanted to talk about like one of my most recent favorites. And I wanted to talk about why. So if anybody's a fourth wing lover, it's going to be Zayden Ryerson. And the reason like I like him almost more dare I say it.

Angela Haas (18:33)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (18:39)
than Violet, which is the the main female character is sorry, Rebecca Yaros, you little genius you. ⁓ His complexity of the juxtaposition and how others see him that are outside of the main group to who he really is and what he shows later specifically to Violet is so three dimensional and it just keeps compounding upon each other.

Angela Haas (18:46)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (19:06)
that it's just perfect. And I love the other piece to this is I love when exteriors do not match interiors. And what I mean by that is our own personal prejudice. And I think a lot of that, you know, is diluting over time. But when people are scarred up or disfigured or super muscular, super tatted up, all the metal piercings, all that stuff, but they're a teddy bear.

Angela Haas (19:16)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (19:36)
on the inside. Like, I love those kind of things. That is not Zayden by any stretch. But he does have disfigurement. He is scowling all the time. He's very pissy. But he also has this major dragon, which, you know, it's a fantasy world that he's connected to, who's also quite vicious, you know, but I don't know, it's interesting, because to me, there's heart between them.

Angela Haas (19:37)
I love that. Totally.

Thank

Cassie Newell (20:04)
I just it's so beautifully written and I love how it carries into the second book you see it just layers just peeling and it just compounds more and more and then by the third book you're just like, my god, he's the best thing ever. And it's just huge. And the sacrifices and all the things I just think, wow, that was like the most expert way to build a character. And I think she did

Angela Haas (20:19)
Right.

Cassie Newell (20:31)
grand gestures around the main female character Violet Sorengale. But I just was drawn to him more because it was more mysterious versus me being in her point of view all the time. And everything. Yeah.

Angela Haas (20:45)
Right.

I think also a master class in enemies to lovers, true enemies to lovers, and you see why completely he would hate her and want kind of some revenge. But also, I think that's

Cassie Newell (20:52)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

But it's hard to reconcile

hating her versus her family, which is her mother, right? Yeah.

Angela Haas (21:05)
Right, but that is,

I love that that's what he's wrestling with. And you know, I think that's what made him jump off the page too for me. Definitely, what was like her childhood friend's name and I forgot the other, gosh, he was bothering me, really bothering me.

Cassie Newell (21:12)
Mm-hmm.

Stain.

Yeah, I like him more

in the later books, but he's not as prevalent. There's reasons for that. He was he I just feel like she should have made him the villain instead of like this complicit friend who could or could not be a villain later and then be a friend again. Like I just and I get that people are wishy washy also when they're being manipulated by their parents. But that's that's his role.

Angela Haas (21:30)
Mm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right, yes, absolutely.

Cassie Newell (21:55)
Yeah,

I don't know. I love that series. And my husband has even listened to it. Like, I'm just, I love it. But I just thought that was, yeah, for a character, the characters, they're just really well done. So well done. Yeah.

Angela Haas (22:12)
They

are well done and well done enough that you want to keep reading I mean that's something hard to do is create characters that people want to see through the rest of the series. That's that is the real trick and and I right and You're rooting for them and you still haven't had all the questions answered and you haven't learned all about them in book one

Cassie Newell (22:22)
Continue. Yeah.

Yeah, how will their lives end? Like how will the story end for them?

Angela Haas (22:39)
So book two and three it's just still more of a discovery and that that's how you do it You don't put everything out there I mean you don't always want to leave things on a cliffhanger. Although she did

I mean, I haven't read book three so we're not gonna talk about that but

Cassie Newell (22:56)
⁓ I think you've probably seen

a lot of the TikToks or something where everybody's just like, what? At the end of three. It's just like, but.

Angela Haas (23:06)
Yeah, I'm

trying to read since I'm writing romance. I've said this before, I can't read in a different genre. If I keep reading romantasy I'll want to write something and I can't go there. So you can't finish that series. And so I've been reading romance, but we've been I've been rewatching like a lot of my favorite 90s 80s and 90s movies.

Cassie Newell (23:10)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (23:30)
looking for the strong females, because I think I read an article where it was, there was an argument where we just haven't had strong female characters up until this point, and I disagree. Now, I think we have way more representation than we did. don't, you know, I don't want to get into any arguments with any listeners, but I argue, because I went back on this discovery of like, you know what,

I want to watch Princess Bride again because Princess Buttercup, she's a badass. She still gets scared, but she jumps into the ocean with the Shrieking Eels and when she makes it through the pit of despair, although okay, this is the part that bothers me. She's watching the love of her life get attacked. No one just sits there and watches that. We could have had a little more movement from her there, but you know, she has, she

Cassie Newell (24:09)
pit of despair.

Angela Haas (24:25)
tells Prince Humberdink to go step on a thousand Legos. Like she's like, nah, Honey Badger don't care. I loved her character because she is really strong, even though it's in this like fairy tale world. Sarah Connor, I mean the 80s and 90s gave us some of the greatest sci-fi female heroines. Sarah Connor. Yeah, exactly. So those ladies I idolized and I loved those actresses because they

Cassie Newell (24:43)
Sigourney Weaver, aliens. Are you kidding me? Best one ever.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (24:52)
They didn't have pretty roles either. I mean, what Sigourney Weaver had to go through in Alien and Aliens was like, my God, you know, that probably was the most grueling filming ever and it wasn't pretty. I love Evelyn from The Mummy, the whole cast of The Mummy, just everything The Mummy. We love her. And I was like, well, and even the ladies from Nine to Five, Dolly Parton and Jane Fonda. I mean,

Cassie Newell (24:55)
No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (25:20)
They were badasses. They took control of her. Yeah. They were all badasses. If you watch that movie again, they have a shitty, gross boss who's a total misogynistic, sexist pig. And they turn the tables. And so it's like, this is why I have a foundation for writing the women that I like to write because

Cassie Newell (25:22)
Yeah, Lily Tomlin was in it too, right? Yeah.

pig.

Angela Haas (25:45)
This was my foundation. And I'm not saying all movies were like that. I get that there are some really bad representations of females from the 70s, 80s, 90s. get that. But these ladies were the ones that taught me, it is a mix of being vulnerable, sad. They have their long dark, you know, tea time of the soul, and they come out of it. And that's the essence of the human journey. And that's why I always write characters.

Cassie Newell (25:48)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Angela Haas (26:13)
my women are gonna cry and maybe my men are too but I think that crying and having a breakdown and showing how you come out of it I think to me that's what I want to see that's what I want to read and that's real strength so yeah

Cassie Newell (26:28)
Yeah. Well, I'd say

it's more current now to see men cry and have emotion than back then, though. It was more stoicism, I guess, ⁓ for men. One more favorite that I love, which I think you could classify even the nine to five women in this way, is the classic underdog. So one of my all time favorites, and if it's on TNT, it is on in our house, is Rudy.

Angela Haas (26:35)
Yes, ⁓ totally, yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (26:55)
Reddager, which is the movie Rudy. I love like, when you see a character and it's realistic, too. I think this is what draws me to sport things. For underdogs specifically, you know, you're too small, you're too slow. But it's all about sheer determination. And he still got his education. He showed up every day he put in the work. And then at the end, you know, the coach is changing.

Angela Haas (26:55)
Yes.

Cassie Newell (27:21)
and they put him in, you know, and then he scores like they were way ahead. He was like on the fifth

Angela Haas (27:26)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (27:28)
line of the football team or whatever, you know, and and like, just that, you know, that build up to that climax was just amazing. And it was based off of a true story. I love those like, can't get enough of those. I love those because it's just that human spirit. And if you can capture that

Angela Haas (27:41)
Yes.

Cassie Newell (27:50)
in a written character. I mean, you are golden. You are golden. And I think that's what makes fiction so fun. And why we enjoy it so much is the representation

of the human spirit of what is possible, right? ⁓ I love, I love in like, TikToks and reels and things where the women are like, especially in romance. I like fictional men.

Angela Haas (28:06)
Right.

Cassie Newell (28:16)
it's possible to find one like that. But, you know, it's just

Angela Haas (28:17)
Yeah? Right.

Cassie Newell (28:20)
it's interesting to me. I love those discussions of human experience and spirit. But I also think time it takes time to develop your personalities and understand like what your values and things are because a lot of those things are

evolution of nurturing from your parents or who you're around your friend groups. And until you're on your own making your own, like I just think personalities ebb and flow, just like couples, you know, your, your coupled them will ebb and flow as you grow together too.

Angela Haas (28:41)
Okay.

Cassie Newell (28:59)
So yeah, I just find all of that really interesting.

Angela Haas (29:00)
Right.

such great points. do you think that in your sports, well, you haven't, have you written a sports romance yet? No. Okay, so do you think that that's, you're gonna write kind of from that underdog or?

Cassie Newell (29:09)
No, but I have some plans.

No, I don't know that I I don't know that I will. Actually, I think the other thing I love about sports is found family. That's that's the key trope. And sports is that found family. Also, when you have found family, but you have that one uncle that's pain in the butt or that one cousin, like you have to have those as well. ⁓

Angela Haas (29:39)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (29:40)
I think that's why I like sports team like series and romance and what hooks me to get into the next book and the next book is because I want to see that player find their match and how that works because usually it's the player who's like, females, you know, whatever,

Angela Haas (29:57)
Right.

Cassie Newell (29:58)
all that, you know, I don't have time for that. I'm busy trying to make life or, you know, all the different things that come up in sports romance, but I think

I think that's why I enjoy it. And I think that's why I love fantasy too, especially when there's found family in there. Like fourth wing, it is all found family. It's military. It's, I mean, anything military or unit based, service based, it's a group of people with a similar goal. And I just, I love that. I love that. And I like watching it fall apart.

And I like watching it they put back together, you know, all the things. So yeah, I love that.

Angela Haas (30:38)
Exactly, yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, I think this was a great first discussion on all things characters and why we love them. ⁓ Yeah, what are... Well...

Cassie Newell (30:47)
Great.

Yeah, so let's talk about personal updates. What's going on with you here at the beginning of July?

Angela Haas (30:58)
Exciting news. I'm gonna pop a photo up there. That's my book in the wild. I finally made it into another bookstore in a different state. So there's this gallery called Anticus I'm not gonna say Anticus I will put the link in the show notes. It's an amazing

Cassie Newell (31:07)
I love it.

Angela Haas (31:23)
gallery slash bookstore. And they have wild artwork in there just like really beautiful but just so different. But they also have had a bookstore and I since my book takes place in Scottsdale, I just went in there and I was like, Hey,

you have local authors. how do I get my book in here? But the cool thing is I'm not even on the local author shelf. I'm on the romance shelf right next to Ali Hazelwood there. So that was so amazing to get that picture. So yeah. So if anyone's in Scottsdale, Old Town, Scottsdale, which I do write about in my book.

Cassie Newell (31:59)
in Arizona

Angela Haas (32:06)
So it's perfect. But yeah, one of my favorite galleries down there.

Cassie Newell (32:06)
That's amazing. my gosh.

I

love that. That's so exciting. I love it. So I've yeah. So my ALC team has a name. They voted. They're the Southern Bells, which I adore.

Angela Haas (32:15)
What about you?

my gosh.

For those of you who, for people who don't know what's an ALC.

Cassie Newell (32:28)
it's an advanced listening copy group. They're like my street team, if you will. So they are getting all of my advanced audiobooks ahead of them being launched and, you know, just listening and helping out with reviews and sharing and all that. So when they signed up, we had like five, five or six different names because I was like, I don't know. I don't want to. They should choose it like what.

Angela Haas (32:31)
for your audio book. Yeah, for audio books, yeah.

Cassie Newell (32:54)
you know, they chose it. So that was awesome. So sweet and spiteful rivalries, which is book two is out for them to listen now. So that's super exciting. And then I just finished Holiday Hearts Unwrapped, which is going to be my holiday matchmaker series is coming out later this year. It is with my editor. So I'm back to the short game and

Angela Haas (33:18)
That's so exciting. Okay.

Cassie Newell (33:22)
Yeah, I've been cooling off this summer writing Christmas and holiday books.

So, exciting stuff.

Angela Haas (33:27)
That's awesome. Great. Okay.

Well, it's time for, you know.

Cassie Newell (33:34)
Table talks.

Angela Haas (33:36)
Here it is. I want to adjust this one. What's the best Halloween costume you've seen or even had yourself?

Cassie Newell (33:45)
Halloween costume I've seen.

I know. I can tell you my Halloween costume. So I've had two major ones that have gotten a lot of fun feedback. So one year before the movies came out, the live movies with Disney, I was Maleficent and I made my own horns and I...

Angela Haas (33:50)
Yeah.

Ooh,

I think I've seen that picture.

Cassie Newell (34:08)
me and my daughters, they helped me,

we papered, mached them, they were huge. They were like two feet. They were awesome. that was a lot of fun being Maleficent. And then I am a big hocus pocus girl. We watch it every Halloween, because my birthday is near Halloween. So I've always had this tradition with the girls. And I am usually Winifred Sanderson. So I show up.

Angela Haas (34:36)
my

gosh. That's amazing. ⁓

Cassie Newell (34:37)
the full regala, the wig, the clothes, the makeup. I've done it for years. And yeah.

So, but now they're adults

and.

Angela Haas (34:48)
I know.

But it's fun. So I think still the winner of the best Halloween costume I've ever seen goes to my friend, then Jess Barmak. And we were in college and she showed up as a college coffee table. But she had the table, like she had her head sticking through. Table.

tablecloths with like cigarette butts, a beer bottle. You know, all the other girls were like cats and Jess rolls in as a coffee table. And it was the best thing I've ever seen. Cause the detail to what she put on the actual table was actually amazing. Jess, you're amazing. So yeah, me too.

Cassie Newell (35:16)
Yeah.

I love it. I love it. I love Halloween. It's like one of my favorite things.

Angela Haas (35:31)
Me too.

Cassie Newell (35:31)
So fun. All right. Well, thanks for joining us today. Don't forget to give us a review and rating wherever you listen to the podcast. It really helps with our visibility and we really appreciate you. Next week, we're talking with Lynn Bohart and until then keep writing, keep doing.