Episode 012 Marketing During Strange Times

Angela Haas (00:01.659)
Hello and welcome to the Author Next Door. I'm Angela Haas and I'm here with my co-host Cassie Newell. And this month we are talking all about marketing. Excuse me. wait, can we start over? totally... What was that? God.

Cassie Newell (00:23.01)
I rubbed off on you.

Angela Haas (00:27.731)
Do you wanna stop or I just cut that or okay.

Cassie Newell (00:30.924)
cut it.

Angela Haas (00:33.651)
All right, welcome to episode 12. That's what I'm supposed to say. Let me start over. Welcome to episode 12. I'm Angela Haas and I'm here with my co-host, Cassie Newell. And this month, we're talking all about marketing. Today, I wanna talk about a hot take about something that's been going on the last few weeks, starting February 28th with

this boycott of Amazon and there was a meta boycott May 4th that I start going around and that got me to thinking, how do you keep going? How do you market in strange times, uncertain times, times when there's a lot of other noise? Because what I was seeing and which I loved seeing

other influencers and indie authors fight back. I totally get it. We're not here to talk about why people want to boycott Amazon. But I don't think people realize the amount of small businesses and indie authors who depend on that as a starting point. That's what I want to dive into today a little bit. How do you market during

strange times or noisy times or during a political election when others don't want to be online. How do you keep going through all that?

Cassie Newell (02:14.446)
So first, I think it's a strategic choice of where you are in your business and how much investment you have total overall. So sorry, my strategic will come out really hard in this episode. But for me, for example, starting a brand new pen name, I wasn't about starting it during an election. Just wasn't going to happen. I would be the smallest ant in the ant pile. There would be so many more.

Angela Haas (02:37.735)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (02:42.912)
individuals in the genres that, you know, have things that we're launching for the holidays, all this stuff to be heard. So I just looked at it as a time to start on social media and start building. That was my marketing choice. So I think you have to look at things a little bit in your planning and strategically. Now, when it comes to uncertain times, like we know when elections are happening, we know when holidays are happening, you know, those things.

Angela Haas (02:57.063)
Mm.

Cassie Newell (03:12.984)
They don't move. But when disruptions happen in retailers or social media, because it just happened for TikTok as well, So I think you have to also make the strategic choice in your own way as to whether or not you clear the noise and continue forward and wait it out, or if you decide to jump to the new shiny bright object.

Angela Haas (03:19.791)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (03:42.21)
because there are a of shiny bright objects out as a result of TikTok, for example, and discussions around the ban in the US. The US is one of the largest reading book buying markets. So that was gonna hurt hard. Didn't matter if you were an author in the UK or in Canada or anywhere because this is a prime market for you if it's an English speaking book that you have.

Angela Haas (03:44.963)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Angela Haas (03:57.041)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Cassie Newell (04:13.27)
So for me, I like to wait out the noise. There's always going to be noise opinions about different retailers and opportunities. And I think as author, strategically, I just have to remain flexible. I certainly open the door for some shiny new objects, and I'm looking at them. I also, you know,

Angela Haas (04:20.967)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (04:41.464)
There's comfortability in the older objects that have been around longer and that have proved time and time again to be worthwhile. So yeah, I think you really just have to make those decisions strategically for yourself. What do you think, Angela?

Angela Haas (05:00.519)
I agree. think you can't, the only business person you can control is yourself. And, you know, I, I don't agree. I don't know. I, I get why people want to boycott things, but there's part of me that's thinking, you know, if you cancel your KU,

It doesn't really hurt Jeff Bezos. That's my opinion. just I feel like there's so there's so many worldwide users of Amazon that you may cancel your KU. It really isn't going to be a drop in the bucket for someone like that. And, you know, what's the there's a saying that's like love the art, not the artist or something like that, where you have to, you know, that's not the right thing. But there is a saying about

Cassie Newell (05:30.455)
Right.

Angela Haas (05:54.419)
Where you kind of have to look beyond do I love meta platforms and everything they stand for no I do not I don't even like using it I I hate that I get distracted by Reels when I'm just trying to check my analytics But it's a necessary evil as part of this business because the other thing we can't do as authors is put all our eggs in one basket I know some people who the tick-tock ban was going to be very devastating because

Cassie Newell (05:54.536)
You

Angela Haas (06:24.231)
That was their main platform. They put everything into it. Understandable. That's where you're finding the most success. There's nothing wrong with feeling that way. But I remember when Vine, which was owned, I believe it was owned by Twitter at the time. It was huge. It was like the first TikTok and people were making money like crazy on that platform and it went away. It just went away.

Cassie Newell (06:51.64)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (06:51.815)
They've just decided to do away with it. So how do you plan for that? You've always got to like hope for the best plan for the worst. And I like to spread myself out a little bit. So then if something goes haywire or if, you know, we're really staying away from Facebook and Instagram because there's an election and there's other noise with something else, I just got to really hit my newsletter or, you know, be

Cassie Newell (07:17.699)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (07:19.737)
somewhere else or maybe plan for a couple more in-person events. You know, I think that's the important part, but I think you have to keep going. But it's easy to get discouraged, don't you think? And want to be like, ugh.

Cassie Newell (07:34.126)
Yeah, it's easy to get discouraged as a new author and new pen name where if you have been around for a while and you have your own store and you have your own capability of owning your IP outside of these systems, it's probably not as devastating to you. And I think the lessons we're hearing kind of in our sophomore junior years is that, yeah, once you have

Angela Haas (07:38.664)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (07:50.397)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Cassie Newell (08:03.436)
Readership that is really interested in what you have to say in terms of your books and what want them. That's the way to go is to sell direct, right? Because you're not beholden to the rates of Amazon and other retailers. But let's not forget that Amazon also is huge and KU is a huge bucket to find readership.

So I'm never going to poo poo them from that perspective because what Amazon has done with e-books allowing the masses to come together to enjoy reading has been part of the industrial complex of being an indie author. Otherwise, it didn't exist. It didn't exist.

Angela Haas (08:32.242)
Right.

Angela Haas (08:56.397)
Right. Yeah, exactly.

Cassie Newell (09:01.262)
Yeah, I get it. I get certain aspects of that. But as you said, boycotting doesn't hurt him. It hurts the creators that are using this platform to try to be discovered. And unfortunately, we're getting paid by page reads, are pennies on the page, half cent on the page. If that, mean, it's a

Angela Haas (09:15.495)
Right.

Angela Haas (09:21.798)
Mm-hmm

Angela Haas (09:29.084)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (09:30.838)
a crazy algorithm I don't completely understand. it's it's no, we're not even making a cup of coffee worth. When you buy our books direct for 299. Yeah, we make a little bit more money for sure. But there's strategy around why you go to KU why you sell how you sell and then different formats because all the things right but I think in the hot topic of boycotting

Angela Haas (09:39.772)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (10:01.208)
People forget the little people. They want to hurt the big person at the top and make a message and make a stand, but you're just hurting the people underneath. It's tough. I don't know that there's an easy road to navigate outside of ensuring whatever platform you are on, you're pushing people to your platform in which you own because that's the only way you can survive.

Angela Haas (10:03.73)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (10:12.079)
Right, yeah.

Angela Haas (10:22.983)
Right.

Angela Haas (10:29.03)
Yeah. Yeah. And that, mean, that brings up the conversation if you go wide or, you know, but then it's like, well, if you're a new author, you don't always make as much money. It's, it's a minefield. But the good news is there's options, you know, there's a lot of options. And I think that's sometimes when I feeling discouraged, it's like, you know what?

Cassie Newell (10:31.148)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (10:47.468)
Yeah, lots of options.

Angela Haas (10:54.917)
You always have options. You always have an option to do something else or to pivot. So, you know.

Cassie Newell (10:59.99)
Yeah. One of the sayings I love the most, and I may have heard this from Jenn, is do you like this platform? Then don't do it if you don't like it. If it's a traj, don't do it. If you don't like it as a creator, as an author, and you gave it a fair shot, don't do it.

Angela Haas (11:12.071)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (11:25.467)
Right. Right.

Cassie Newell (11:27.34)
Because there are so many different types of platforms. If you feel that your share of voice isn't being heard and you need the socialization that social media provides, find the one that fits you. Yeah, the best you can. So for example, I'm on TikTok. You're not on TikTok. See?

Angela Haas (11:39.239)
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

Angela Haas (11:51.643)
Mm-mm. Nope. No, can't. I mean, I feel like maybe some day I almost need someone to do it for me because I just, feel like it's going to be a huge distraction. the amount of work you have to do prep wise, I'm just not there yet. I feel like, again, I want to keep

producing. I'm in a producing year when I want to writing, producing, publishing, getting my catalog. Then I'll probably look at like, okay, I've, talked about this a couple episodes ago, where maybe it's where you get 10 books out, you know, and then you finally start to see some return. But so I, that's my goal. I got to get 10 books out and any marketing I do is great.

Cassie Newell (12:30.158)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (12:43.274)
Right.

Angela Haas (12:49.053)
but I've got to focus my time, energy, and money on making products to sell. Then I'll probably move to what kind of merchandise could I have with these? What kind of online store can I have? that's, for me, I don't feel like there yet, but some people have online stores with two and three books. So it's just what's right for you.

Cassie Newell (13:11.918)
Right, Agreed. I think the strategy has to be personal. And I think when it comes to the hot topic of, you know, social media coming, going, changing, whatever that is, I think you have to be flexible in your strategy. That's the only way you survive it. Yeah.

Angela Haas (13:13.896)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (13:30.127)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Have a plan B. Gotta have a plan B. What if they do ban TikTok? Although I don't think it'll ever be an outright ban. think there's going to be some gozillionaire in the United States that wants to buy it and get their hands on it. I mean, it's never going to be an outright ban. I don't believe. But what if it is? What if it goes away? What if

Cassie Newell (13:41.55)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (13:57.454)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (13:58.205)
Threads Goes Away or Blue Sky or some of the other platforms that we like, you know, what if you're, I don't think this could happen, but what if Substack Goes Away? I never thought Vine would go away. So that's all I'm saying. Like you never know. I mean, Vine was cranking. It was my favorite and it just left. It just like was the boyfriend who ghosted you and broke up with you on a posted note and just didn't even explain. It was just like, we're done. Huh?

my gosh. Yeah. So beware.

Cassie Newell (14:29.208)
Like, whatever.

Cassie Newell (14:34.466)
Yeah, no easy answer in times of turmoil, but I think if you stay true to your course and just wait it out as it happens, you know, don't get too knee jerky.

Angela Haas (14:46.855)
Yeah. Well, and also if you need a break from the noise, take a break. You know what? The people that you, if it's for your mental health and for your, you know, the world won't stop. Your readers won't leave you if you don't post for a couple of weeks. If you truly just like, need time away from these platforms. I don't want to even be in there. Or you schedule a few things and turn it off. That's okay too.

Cassie Newell (14:53.122)
Yeah, take a break.

Angela Haas (15:17.105)
You know what? It's not going to be the end of your business. So, yeah. So, what about personal updates? What are you, what do you got going on?

Cassie Newell (15:20.684)
Yeah, agreed.

Cassie Newell (15:27.886)
gosh, so book three has launched, which is crazy. I'm like getting ready for, getting ready for arcs for book four. Yeah, cause it launches April 15th. Yeah, yeah, crazy. But I'm so excited because this wraps up.

Angela Haas (15:35.846)
What about book four?

Angela Haas (15:41.33)
I can't even keep track.

Angela Haas (15:45.617)
Yeah. Pretty darn cool. Yeah. That's great.

Cassie Newell (15:54.604)
The first series and my short romances for sweethearts, scones and stories. Love my, all my S's, but it was important to have it named that way. What about you? What are your personal updates?

Angela Haas (16:07.195)
Yeah, that's so great. So cool. I just have a the sequel to My Plus One Equals You, the heartbeat equation math, mathiness, even though I'm terrible at math and I hate math. That's in production. So hopefully starting to get that out by the end, help to get it out by the end of the year. So we'll see. But

It's been fun. Yeah. All right. What have we got here? Okay.

Cassie Newell (16:36.916)
Awesome. Yeah, I love knowing all the super secret stuff about it.

Angela Haas (16:48.451)
all right. Our table topic. If one of your friends needed to move in for a year, who would you like it to be? Put this on the spot.

Cassie Newell (17:05.121)
Well, Angela, you of course could move in. Who knows where I will be living at the time, but you know.

Angela Haas (17:08.947)
Be careful what you wish for. Yeah. You could be here. I won't be here, but yeah.

Cassie Newell (17:18.19)
Yeah, actually, my best friend Bonnie, she could easily move in with me too. So like, I'm pretty easy to live with actually.

Angela Haas (17:27.751)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (17:29.25)
Yeah, I don't require much.

Angela Haas (17:33.299)
I would say... Right.

Cassie Newell (17:33.356)
long as you pick up after yourself, you know, if you can cook, I will clean vice versa. That's kind of the rules in our house. But like, I am not picking up after people all the time that wears me slick. So yeah.

Angela Haas (17:39.016)
Right.

Angela Haas (17:47.943)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I would say my friend, Devi Dibella, she was my college roommate, so we already lived together for a year. So, and she like, my gosh, I would raid her closet. I wouldn't really do anything with it, but I love just like wearing our high heels around the house. Like I was 12. She just had like the best taste in clothes, fashion. She was amazing. so I could, she could move in with me because we already did it.

and just be like college. yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you everyone for listening. If you have a second, please subscribe or leave us a review wherever you listen. It just really helps us with visibility and comment on our YouTube and let us know if there's any topics that you are interested in hearing in. We'd love to hear from you as always.

Cassie Newell (18:18.562)
Yeah, that'd be awesome. Fun.

Angela Haas (18:45.179)
And next week we are talking with Amy Van Sant, who is the list builder extraordinaire. She writes in multiple genres. I've worked with her over the course of the last couple of years and she's amazing. So really looking forward to that. Until then, keep writing, keep doing, keep going. We'll see ya.