Episode 35: How to Approach Indie Booksellers and Other In-Person Selling Tips

Angela Haas (00:17)
Welcome to episode 35. I'm Angela Haas and I'm here with my co-host Cassie Newell and this month we are talking all about ways to grow your business as an author. This episode I'm leading with points about how to sell in person.

Because sometimes we're so focused on selling books in an online space, but we don't realize that there are so many opportunities to sell your books face to face. I created a seminar like this. I'm changing the title, but it was called Think Like a Retailer, just to share some of my expertise running brick and mortar stores, but also my years as a buyer.

a book buyer, art buyer, gift buyer. I just was a buyer for a long time and I really loved it. And it helped me to work with a lot of people, but just understand how stores cultivate the product that they have. So I want to first talk about how to approach indie bookstores. That's just some helpful hints and then just some little tips to think about what to think about when you are looking at your cover.

and thinking about merchandising your book like retailers do. So first thing, and Cassie if you have questions along the way just stop me, ⁓ but when you approach indie bookstores, and you should, because it's just another avenue for people to find you,

Cassie Newell (01:46)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (01:57)
And honestly, I think sometimes we discount how important having a paperback is. I did a little research. According to the Association of American Publishers, last year paperbacks and hard covers were still the number one selling format for books. But ebooks were

Cassie Newell (02:04)
Right. ⁓

Angela Haas (02:16)
just 10 % of the market. And that actually really surprised me, but it was like paperback hardcover, 35 and 36%. So if you're only selling eBooks, are you missing out on what could be a big part of your business?

Cassie Newell (02:30)
Thank

Angela Haas (02:34)
I know that there's a cost to it. So if you're truly just starting out, you truly just want to get your books out there, don't want to worry about printing and having author copies, yes, the ebook is the way to go. But if you can get into local bookstores, that becomes another place where you could have a book signing.

So here's some tips with how to approach indie bookstores. Now, every buyer's different, every bookstore is different. So this is

what I would impart to listeners with what worked for me. But the bottom line is you need to do research. What would always happen to me is like I'd get pop-ins, So we're a tourism based business, meaning July 2nd is one of the busiest days of the year because people are coming in and getting ready for July 4th. And it would kill me sometimes how many people would

pop in at 1 p.m. I just inhaled my lunch for 10 minutes. I'm back out on the sales floor and someone comes in and was like, hey, can I talk to you about selling my book art thing? And I would have to say no because I was not in the head space to do a buy. But really,

Cassie Newell (03:44)
Thank you.

Angela Haas (03:54)
An appointment is always better because that buyer is then ready for you to give you undivided attention. But you may have to first start as a customer for these bookstores in that go in, buy a book, see what kind of stock they have in your genre. Are they overflowing in romantasy They may not be taking on yours right now. Is it?

Cassie Newell (04:08)
Right.

Angela Haas (04:23)
the middle of January in Colorado and it's so slow, it's not a great time or is that the best time? ⁓ But making an appointment is better and the way to do that is to first start being a customer, go in a few times, get the lay of the land, then start asking questions like, hey, do you sell books by local authors? And who do I talk to?

start with asking those questions because I did that in Scottsdale. my book is selling in a Scottsdale bookstore. It takes place in Scottsdale, so that's why it was a no-brainer. But I just was in, I had been in several times. I knew that they stocked local authors. And then I just asked like, do you sell local authors? Yes, we really support local authors. Who can I talk to? I got the contact information and started with a phone call and an email.

And that works so much better, but yeah.

Cassie Newell (05:22)
So how do you like

just the bravery of calling up a store asking to make appointment? Is it better to call or is it better to walk in and say, Hey, I would love to make an appointment to talk about my book.

Angela Haas (05:35)
I mean, I guess it's whatever your comfort level is. ⁓ the thing is, I just was there and I felt compelled to ask the person who was standing there and then I could leave my card and my press kit behind. So there's pros and cons, I guess. And it should start with what you're most comfortable with. If you're really only comfortable with the phone call. I would call, but be mindful of when you call.

Mondays and Fridays are the worst time to call someone because those are normal business hours and Really when you're running a retail business Saturday and Sundays are not good times to call either. It may be great time for you but really Tuesday Wednesday Thursdays middle of the week are best because Monday everyone's catching up if they've been gone for the weekend or if they've worked all weekend They're answering a bazillion phone calls

Friday they just want to like clear their head and get ready for the weekend if they're working so Call Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I would say probably morning is the best time and If you don't get someone maybe then consider popping in You know and just trying to get a feel for like who can I leave this with and who can I talk to? but what happened with

people that I work with sometimes is they pop in and just be ready to like try to sell me their thing. You always should just be prepared to leave something behind if you can't meet with someone. But if you have an appointment, then that person is setting aside time and you have their full attention. So that's really the best thing to do.

Cassie Newell (07:17)
So you talked about leaving your card and your press kit. And one of my questions is, what should I be carrying around with me all the time? And what should that look like? Can you kind of go into that a little bit?

Angela Haas (07:26)
All the time. I don't care.

And this is whether you're an author trying to approach a bookstore or an author trying to make a connection with a future reader. I say a must at all times is some sort of contact card, some business card with your photo on it.

you should always have your picture because then they're like, yeah, I remember this person. I have just a contact card with a QR code, but just my basics website email. You don't have to have your address, phone number and all this with like a QR code to social media links and website. And then my picture on the back. So that's baseline I say because

Again, like I sold a book to my dental hygienist because she asked what I did and I told her and I got them interested and they wanted to read my book. I gave them a card. Sales opportunities are everywhere if you're willing to answer the question, what do you do and what do you write in a concise way, but having that card is so important because

Cassie Newell (08:35)
Right.

Angela Haas (08:42)
It's just a way for you to seem professional out of the gate if you're approaching a bookseller or a brick and mortar of some sort. But also just a way so that someone remembers their exchange with you. And then if you want to go further, I have books in my car and I have press kits, which meaning like if I'm going around and I want to leave something behind a press kit, I mean, there's probably different definitions.

Cassie Newell (09:01)
Ha

Angela Haas (09:12)
I just say it's like my card and then sort of almost like an author resume or CVC if you will, you know, has your photo on it and it has your book cover on it and then reviews and

Cassie Newell (09:21)
Mm.

Angela Haas (09:27)
bullet points of facts about your book and why it would be great for someone to sell. And then a book because you could say, well, I'm sorry so-and-so isn't here. I'd love for you to just consider my book. I'm going to leave all this behind for you and then let me know. I think that's a great way to get people interested to see if what you have might work. But I also would say,

You need to understand. We're not, the cat butt has appeared, but we are not over. no, I think it's.

Cassie Newell (10:00)
We are not over. I'm so sorry. I have like no

door to like lock her out.

Angela Haas (10:06)
Cassie just moved, so it's like we're just, the cat is furious and letting us know. But I would say also the other trick with indie bookstores is they work on wholesale and consignment. And so you need to understand how wholesale works because I've had authors approach me and they were trying to sell their book to me at retail.

Cassie Newell (10:34)
Right.

Angela Haas (10:34)
And

retail is whatever you're selling your book for. Wholesale is your cost, and it's a little tricky with books because we don't make as much royalty-wise on them. But if you had a paperback that cost $5, your wholesale price would probably be like $8 to $9, especially if you're selling it for $16 or $17.99.

Everyone has to make money, right? Everyone, has to be a good business deal for everyone.

Cassie Newell (11:01)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (11:05)
as an author, you need to make your cost back plus a little bit more, but then there has to be enough for the seller

to make some money So it could be half of $17.99 or, you know, whatever to make yours a little bit more attractive. And then if you're selling a ton of books, everyone's happy, they're going to reorder. But some places also pay on consignment. So the indie bookstore slash gallery I'm in in Scottsdale, they

they wait till I've sold like $50 worth of product and then they'll send me a check for that. And they only ordered two books to start just to try it and then they'll reorder more. But if you get in somewhere and have a good relationship with that person, you could do a book launch there and sell 50 books, you know. So

Cassie Newell (12:00)
Right.

Angela Haas (12:02)
It depends on your goal. ⁓ I understand brick and mortar retail So my goal is to get into stores, you know, but don't be discouraged if you get rejected because there could be so many factors. Maybe you've got your the 20th romantasy and for them in their region, romantasy's not selling but

Cassie Newell (12:25)
Right.

Angela Haas (12:26)
science fiction

is, you know, or they're just not buying right now. Our buying season in Colorado, because tourism is Memorial Day to Labor Day, is January, February. That's when we finished inventory. And that's when we start to look at new things. For people like, you know, Southwest, like Arizona is the opposite. So their tourist season starts November 1st.

to about April, May 1st. So they're buying, they're probably getting ready and buying September, October. So that's why a little research goes a long way. You got to figure out like, is this a tourism place? Is it more for locals? What season am I in? And what's the best time to approach a buyer? If that makes sense. yeah. But

Cassie Newell (13:15)
Yeah.

What do you think about

approaching stores that may not be your traditional bookstores? Cause I know you have different brick and mortar places yourself. And there are some around me in this new small town. Of course, my family's like, yeah, you should tell them about, they would put your book up, you know, and I would be like the only book there kind of thing. And I'm just kind of like, I don't, I don't know. Like how do you.

Angela Haas (13:31)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (13:48)
What do you think about that in approaching being more of a local author in a town and?

Angela Haas (13:55)
You got to think about your book as a gift. It's not just a novel. It's a gift. And yours are perfect little gifts that if I was merchandising them, I would put it with tea and coffee and a baking thing. it's all retailers know, you make little stories and it's not just that you want to be on a bookshelf.

Cassie Newell (14:00)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Angela Haas (14:22)
with other authors. In fact, it's your advantage if it's the opposite. If you're the only book on the table that's merchandised in a cute way with other products that fit your vibe and feeling, you're going to sell way more. That's how I put my romance in one of our boutiques. It's just sitting on the table, buy a pair of jeans and a heart-shaped dish.

Cassie Newell (14:27)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (14:49)
and this pillow with the phrase on it and I've sold 16 copies off that table in the last month. So because people are like, I'm going to get this for so-and-so with my heart dish or with this bookmark. It's all about merchandising. So actually I would say go for it, and

Cassie Newell (14:57)
Wow.

Angela Haas (15:10)
say have these teas too, you could give out with my book or whatever, you or if you want to sell the teas with it or something. So the bottom line is you have nothing to lose. Right? I mean, you they could say no, and no harm, no foul, your life's not gonna be any different. They could say yes. Right? They could say yes. And then all of a sudden,

Cassie Newell (15:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

No.

Angela Haas (15:35)
you have a new network and a new connection. What I also would put in your press kit is like, here's my social media platforms that I can cross promote for you. So I will do TikToks and reels that my book is in here. People are always looking for that. And that sweetens the deal too. So it's a little work because you want to cross promote. You want to send out the word and,

Cassie Newell (15:52)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (16:02)
tag them and show like, hey, I'm in this new store. But it's kind of a cool part of your resume, right? We're always building our author resumes, right? So if you have a list of stores that carry your book because of your hard work, that only I think sweetens your reputation as an author. And it just gives people a ways to find you,

Cassie Newell (16:10)
Right.

Okay.

Angela Haas (16:25)
The last thing I want to say is if you do get rejected by an indie bookstore, I've seen authors take to Threads or Instagram and immediately shame them. Don't ever do that, okay? You want to, you're right. Don't run a bridge. You never know. You may give someone your card.

Cassie Newell (16:35)
⁓ no.

Yeah, don't burn a bridge.

ever.

Angela Haas (16:47)
And maybe it's the old buyer who's retiring and the new buyer comes in and says, I think this would be perfect. If you, if they go on your social media and say you've shamed them, then definitely that door is closed. You never know why someone's not going to buy your book. It may just not be the right time, but in six months it will be. So just be patient. I would follow up if you don't hear anything, but don't badger. It's all about balance, you know? ⁓ so those are.

Cassie Newell (17:04)
Right.

Angela Haas (17:17)
tips for how to approach indie bookstores. Hopefully that was helpful. Other ways to sell face-to-face are going to conventions or book events, author events. I know a lot of conferences these days have ways as authors for you to rent a table, not too expensive, and then sell your books. But thinking like a retailer, again, it's all about merchandising.

Cassie Newell (17:37)
Right.

Angela Haas (17:43)
how are you making your display so irresistible that when someone walks by it gets them to stop? And a lot of times it's little things like having, some sort of swag and useful swag. I did a poll on this, pens were the number one.

Cassie Newell (17:52)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (18:05)
swag items that both authors and readers loved picking up at conventions. Like a little post-it note with your... You could have CK Darling post-it notes with hearts and like, you know? Because people are like, ⁓ I love this, but I can use this, you know? I think stickers are always fun, but then stickers like sometimes I have a ton of stickers. It's like, what am I going to do with the sticker? I still say they make for a nice table, but

Cassie Newell (18:20)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (18:36)
With my romance, had, because it was wedding themed, just wedding favors. know, a Hershey kiss with the name and like, save the date on the bottom. ⁓ mints. People love food items, obviously. ⁓ but start there with something you can afford. You know, obviously the stuff gets really expensive, but there are like, zazzle, red bubble. Four Imprint is even a company that makes

Cassie Newell (18:42)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (19:05)
logo themed stuff that you can sell. It's all part of merchandising. the classic retail phrase is you've got to spend money to make money.

Cassie Newell (19:07)
Right.

You know what's intimidating though at some

of these book conventions and reading conventions is, know, people will have like their poster thing up and these fancy tablecloths and that requires quite a bit of expense upfront. You know, that can be a little intimidating too.

Angela Haas (19:28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It does, yeah.

It's so intimidating. And I would say if you're not there yet, just wait. think because I've been to conventions where the person had one book and nothing on the table and the books were just kind of stacked and he was sitting there but no one bought his book

Cassie Newell (19:46)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (20:03)
You're still trying to attract customers and retail selling is all about subliminal messaging. It's all about starting the buying process by just even getting someone to like come to your table. So it is an expense and maybe that's a goal. Maybe don't do it out of the gate. I would caution people to do it right before just doing it because you could spend money on a table and if you can't

Cassie Newell (20:17)
Right.

Angela Haas (20:30)
afford right now to make the table a sensory and shopping experience for your reader, then maybe wait until you can say, I'm going to budget and I'm going to pens and post-its or chapsticks or something and make that like a list of your goals for like

Cassie Newell (20:39)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (20:52)
this convention this year I'm gonna go and I'm gonna sell but I know like I have to plan for this cost and this cost and this cost you know ⁓ yeah yeah the the banners

Cassie Newell (21:00)
I know that I've looked into like the things, the little poster things that roll down and up that kind of go behind the table. And those can get really expensive. And I talked to this one lady and I thought she was so cool. And she was really there with a couple of other people at

a bookstore. But I thought this was so smart. They had all that stuff and she didn't. A lot of people were coming to her booth because she bought a balloon arch.

Angela Haas (21:21)
Uh-huh.

Cassie Newell (21:30)
She said it was cheaper and she could get it on the day and didn't have to take care of it later. Like she was just going to pop it. If you done with it.

And she just bought fabric for her table and it was very whimsical colors. Like nothing was printed on. She did have a poster that sat up, you know, she very minimal things like she didn't have all the other stuff, but she had this really cool balloon art, you know, and everyone was just like,

Angela Haas (21:45)
Yeah. Right. That's absolutely perfect.

It's perfect. Yeah.

Cassie Newell (22:00)
It's different and

we beelined right to it. ⁓ So I thought it was pretty neat.

Angela Haas (22:04)
Exactly. Yeah. You could even get like

cardboard boxes and get you know, go to Joanne fabrics and see the cast offs or something. You know, they have bins where it's like just pieces and or just get tulle tulle. Everyone loves the whimsy of tulle depending on your genre, you could build like tulle and have like something going with that and to make something yourself is not that expensive. So yeah, I mean,

Cassie Newell (22:16)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (22:34)
However you can do it to make yourself stand out, absolutely. You don't have to spend a lot of money as long as you make yourself memorable. So yeah, mean, that's perfect. In fact, the next time we sell books somewhere, we're doing it. We're gonna have a balloon arch Yeah.

Cassie Newell (22:44)
Right. I love that.

Yeah, I thought it was brilliant because she drove

in because that's always my question too. And I tend to ask like, how do you plan for this if you don't live in the state ⁓ for where the conference is or what have you? And I hear over and over you're driving typically because it's too expensive to ship all your books and materials and yourself. So it's just easier to drive. And she said,

Angela Haas (23:03)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Cassie Newell (23:21)
I knew that there was a balloon bouquet company nearby and I called them, scheduled my balloon arch, told them my colors, picked it up on the way here and I will pop

Angela Haas (23:21)
⁓

Cassie Newell (23:32)
it and let it go. I went home and I thought, so smart. Yeah, and she said if that didn't work, she would just get some balloons to be on the table, and balloon bouquets if you will and things like that.

Angela Haas (23:35)
I think that's fantastic. So smart. So smart. Yeah, absolutely.

Cassie Newell (23:49)
Just thought there are other ways of doing that, you know, and I just, yeah, I think that's really smart. ⁓

Angela Haas (23:53)
⁓ Yeah.

We're all, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. How do you get your customer to the door?

Cassie Newell (23:58)
And you have to think of it as window shopping, right?

Angela Haas (24:06)
It's one thing then to like be able to sell beyond that point, but just getting them to your door is half the battle. And then if you have like a Hershey's to offer them, you're like, Hey, you want to kiss or something? Like have your schtick You have your schtick No one sociopaths like, okay. Like obviously you don't want those people buying your book now, but

Cassie Newell (24:21)
Yeah, you want a Hershey's kiss? You like chocolate? Like whoever turns down chocolate probably shouldn't be there anyway, right?

Angela Haas (24:34)
⁓ so yeah, those are my tips. think I, I'm going to save this for like another episode because I could go so much deeper into color theory. And as far as like how that works, merchandising the meanings behind color and why that's important for your paperback. So I think I'll, save that. I'll save that. We've got hot topics again in November, so I'll do a more like, you know,

Cassie Newell (24:56)
You're gonna save that tid bet, that bonus.

Angela Haas (25:03)
Just a fun instructional hot topic later. Yeah.

Cassie Newell (25:07)
I love how you have this experience and I am one of your friends who asked you about wholesale because that came up with the tea company that I've been working with and I just was like I know nothing you know between wholesale and consignment. Consignment is when they buy it outright right? No.

Angela Haas (25:25)
No, consignment

is you send them your product and there's an agreed upon time. a lot of artwork is sold on consignment. some galleries will say, I wanna have your painting and I'm gonna put it up for 30 days at this price.

Cassie Newell (25:32)
⁓

Angela Haas (25:43)
whatever the cost is wholesale, the retailer will double it and add 10 % and then probably round up. Yeah. Yes.

Cassie Newell (25:44)
I think.

for their profit, right, of putting it up. So for

consignment, they're just sending you your check after it sells

Angela Haas (25:59)
after it sells, if it sells. galleries do this and that way they haven't shelled out $15,000 for a painting, not knowing if it's gonna sell. Book.

Cassie Newell (26:09)
Right versus wholesale is

buying it up front and then the person is trying to sell it to make their money back and then some.

Angela Haas (26:18)
Well, wholesale has to do with pricing. Consignment has to do with how they pay you. So wholesale is just universal. Wholesale is wholesale. Whether they, either buy outright and there's something in retail called terms we spend $5,000 on jewelry.

Cassie Newell (26:21)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, that's universal. I understand. Okay.

Angela Haas (26:40)
we send them that check for $5,000 either immediately or sometimes we have 30, 60 or 90 days to pay that $5,000, but still were paying outright. When it's consignment, we're putting it on the wall and waiting it for it to sell. That's when we pay them. So there's pay out right? Or consignment, but wholesale is always either it's wholesale or retail. Yeah, it's how you structure your pricing. That's what wholesale is.

Cassie Newell (27:03)
That's just the pricing of it, got it.

And that

took a lot for me to wrap my head around. And my husband was like, you're pricing too low, Cassie, you're pricing too low. So I went to Angela. I was like, okay, so if my book costs this to print and my retail is this, like, I don't know. And it comes, like my books being printed right now are coming from the UK, if they're the special edition. And of course that's what they wanted.

Angela Haas (27:12)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

Ha!

Right.

Cassie Newell (27:37)
And they're the only store that has my special edition besides me. ⁓ and of course I had to get it to me to sign it because they wanted all their books signed. But yeah.

Angela Haas (27:46)
Right. Yeah, most bookstores do want signed copies and that's something that sells it more.

Cassie Newell (27:53)
Because that adds

value too, right?

Angela Haas (27:55)
Mm-hmm.

They can't get it on Amazon signed, so you should be prepared to sign copies. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (28:02)
So,

and then I had to think about my shipping to them, which was wonderful of them, because they were like, no, here's the, we'll reimburse you, or you could use our UPS code to ship. So that was lovely of them, but.

Angela Haas (28:13)
Right. Yeah.

It's either half wholesale, whatever your retail is, say just to be easy, your retail is $20. You're going to charge the bookstore $10. If you go more than that, that becomes less attractive. Yes, because

Cassie Newell (28:31)
And that's assuming you priced your book right at the beginning, right? Because people that

didn't price their books right, I think this is where you get in trouble. Because wonder if it costs $12 to print that $20 book, right? It should be costing a lot more. So I always think that's something to think about too, because like, you have to, hopefully you're paying $8 or,

Angela Haas (28:47)
then you should be, yeah, if it.

If it costs $12 to print.

Cassie Newell (28:59)
or $5 for that printed book or something.

Angela Haas (29:04)
If it

costs $5, I'm selling my wholesale at nine. So then, you know, I'm getting nine and they're getting about eight. So it's pretty even, you know, if your book costs $12, your retail should be $24.99.

there is a subliminal message that makes something $24.99 way more attractive than something $25. we think that little penny, it's way less expensive.

Cassie Newell (29:35)
Right.

Angela Haas (29:37)
And it has to be advantageous for the business to carry your book. So how do you price it so that you're getting what you need out of it, but still making it attractive to a seller that hey, the more we sell, everyone's making money, you know, so those are things to think about for sure.

Cassie Newell (29:37)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. I'm learning a lot. I saw my book in the space already and it's exciting. It is exciting to see your book in places like that.

Angela Haas (29:57)
Yeah.

That's great. Yeah.

It is, yeah, it

gives you another thing to post and it's just another way for people to find you, you know? well, cool. Well, let's go to updates. What are your updates?

Cassie Newell (30:22)
So I've been moving and not just from house to house, but to a different state. So I now am in Tennessee, which is my home state where I was born, where a lot of my family is from, where they live in Northern Georgia, which is also a soft spot in my heart. My town I write about is in Georgia as well. But yeah, that's.

Angela Haas (30:29)
Mm-hmm.

Cassie Newell (30:48)
That's been it. I'm waiting for my furniture to come this week. So I'm kind of makeshift everything right now. So hopefully things start to look a little normal. And

Angela Haas (31:00)
Yeah.

Cassie Newell (31:00)
somehow I was able to write this weekend and I'm wrapping up my second short romance series and draft anyway. I've got one edited. So yeah.

Angela Haas (31:02)
⁓

Cassie Newell (31:16)
third books coming out and I'm really happy with how it's rolling. I kind of am digging the vibe. So yeah, I like it. What

Angela Haas (31:27)
nice, cool.

Cassie Newell (31:29)
about you?

Angela Haas (31:30)
Wow.

Well, I don't have much. I'm still in the editing zone. We're getting ready to remodel and do it. It's just been a little bit of a hectic summer and I've had to work more in our businesses. So I don't have much of an update, but I want to, what I want to do is expand this section to if we don't have much of an update.

Cassie Newell (31:45)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (31:58)
we can talk about what we're reading, what we're watching, or a viral moment we're seeing online. And I saw something go viral and kind of blow up on Threads And it was things that happened at the Sinners and Stardust Convention. And this actually fits what we're talking about, because if you are planning to do more in-person sales and go to these conventions, hear me when I say, do your research, not just on their website.

But search these topics on Threads, Instagram, X, see what, and Reddit especially. Reddit is a great way to see what real people are saying. So, The Sinners and Stardust is a dark romance convention. It was held in Boston. I think it's gonna be New Orleans next year. ⁓ But all this crazy stuff happened. Like people...

Cassie Newell (32:39)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Haas (32:55)
like male models getting groped by readers like readers come on but just like people really blurring the lines of what they're reading as the fantasy in the book and then coming to the convention to like act out things insane then we have the disaster of the Readers Take Denver conference i'm sorry i'm in Colorado sorry Colorado but this was just

Cassie Newell (33:11)
Yeah.

Angela Haas (33:23)
an abomination. So authors had, they would deliver their books or the books got shipped there so they could set up later, they were stolen, some of them like, hundreds of thousands dollars was a book stolen. Some readers paid $300 to get in because Rebecca Yarros was going to be there and they weren't allowed, they were denied entry so they couldn't get in or something happened. But disaster, right? Then there was the mill

Cassie Newell (33:50)
Like did they over

estimate and there were too many people there?

Angela Haas (33:53)
I think they,

because yes, because Rebecca Yarros like they sold way too many tickets and people obviously Rebecca Yarros being in Denver, I mean, that was going to be insane because I think her Onyx Storm was also like it was on the heels of Onyx Storm coming out. So it was getting all this press and then it was just a shit show. Excuse me. ⁓

Then it was the Million Lives Festival which was supposed to be this like convention for authors, but then this romantasy ball where participants, attendees were encouraged to dress up in like these just elaborate costumes and gowns. And you get there and it's like in a warehouse. It's freezing. There's just these little conference, bare conference tables with nothing on them.

Cassie Newell (34:46)
There's no decoration.

Angela Haas (34:48)
No, nothing. There was no music. They got there and it was just like, what's happening? So there's so many little, there's like, I think big conventions, like ones that people really recognize, like Author Nation, a lot of authors recognize that. And then there's sometimes these smaller ones that take place and you just like, buy er beware, go to the forums, search the topic, see what...

Cassie Newell (35:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (35:16)
attendees have said before you book tickets to some of these things because my gosh so yeah Sinners and Stardust look that up on Threads and see it's crazy yeah yeah it is

Cassie Newell (35:26)
wow. That's unfortunate because like they

try to get excitement by having, you know, the real life characters there. I just can't imagine people like basically assaulting these models. Like, no.

Angela Haas (35:37)
Right. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. And then people

online saying like, oh well, it's a man, it's okay. And I'm like, nah, I don't think so. No, rude. Anyway, that's a whole other episode, but we're not gonna go into that, but just be careful out there. So, all right, ready?

Cassie Newell (35:49)
No, we wouldn't say that about a woman. No, ugh, awful. It is.

gosh, I'm ready.

Angela Haas (36:06)
What's the most likely reason you'd lose your job?

Cassie Newell (36:10)
Ha

My day job? ⁓ Cause I won the lottery or I'm doing really good at my author business. And I just stop. ⁓ Yeah, I'd probably resign. don't know. I'm too much of, yeah, I just think of my teams. Like I couldn't just not do anything. I would, I'm sure I would have.

Angela Haas (36:16)
Yeah, you're so young.

Yeah.

Right. It's

hard. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Cassie Newell (36:40)
you know, my three weeks obligatory notice that's required of my position. I would do everything I could to make sure it was as smooth as possible. But yeah, I just, I don't do anything that's not expected of me or beyond because I'm too much of a high achiever. So yeah,

that would, that would be tough.

Angela Haas (37:03)
Yeah.

I actually have been fired before. A while ago. Yeah. But I think in a way, sometimes those are really good things. I was working for a different like retail. They're called attractions in Colorado Springs because there's a whole group of businesses that double as like a place for tourists can go and you

Cassie Newell (37:10)
I have to.

Angela Haas (37:31)
You know, there's a place called Cave of the Winds, which we love and their ride, the Terror Dactyl is actually featured on the Today Show. The people from the Today Show and Travel Channel, they've all come and done this ride because sidebar, they tip you, you're in a swing strapped in and they tip you. And so you're just dangling over a canyon. Like not a Grand Canyon type, but pretty close. Like you're just over a ravine basically in the mountains.

Cassie Newell (37:52)
my gosh.

Hang in.

Angela Haas (38:00)
you know, 10,000 feet up and then you're just dropped. So ⁓ it's an attraction. Like you go, there's some, there is a store, there's a cafe, but there's things to do. So I was working for a rival attraction that wasn't very, they were doing some shady things. So I'm always like the change agent. I want to go in and

And these employees can't, I was a manager and these employees kept coming up to me and saying, this place isn't right. This, they're doing this to us. Can you help us? And I was like, sure, I'll go say something. So I opened my mouth instead of just keeping my head down. And of course they got rid of me because I was trying to like shake things up too much. And this is very small potatoes in the world. So it's not, it's not a big bit. It's, it wasn't that big of a deal. They weren't paying me enough for it to hurt too bad, but

Cassie Newell (38:22)
You

Yeah.

Angela Haas (38:50)
Just speaking up sometimes, ⁓ that's gives me trouble, but justice is such a huge thing for me. I hate when there's like bad people getting away with things or bullies or I just tend to speak out and that sometimes gives me trouble. So anyway, all inspiration for our stories, right? Yes. Well,

Cassie Newell (39:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Angela Haas (39:16)
Great episode. Thank you for letting me talk about some of my tips and thank you listeners for listening. Thank you everyone for joining us today. Don't forget to give us a review and rating wherever you listen to the podcast. It really helps us with visibility. Next week, new month and we are deep. I know September we are doing a really fun deep dive into genres.

and different genres and a lot of them we don't write in so stay tuned for that until then keep writing keep doing we'll see you

Cassie Newell (39:46)
I'd love it.

Bye!